Thanks, Ita.

Okay, I get it! I thought "Frodo is great....who is THAT?" was what Figwit was thinking. But no -- it's what we, the viewers, are thinking. I get it.

I have a couple of questions for those who know the books better than I (answer and enable my laziness!):

• In book canon, is there any reason to believe Legolas actually would have met Aragorn or Arwen before the Council?'

• So what's this I hear about Legolas' father having kept Gimli's father imprisoned at some point?

Just based on the ages of the character's -- Arwen was born in the first millenium of the third age, Legolas -- we don't know when he was born but I'm guessing after the elves come back from Valinor given that he hadn't seen the sea before RotK and Aragorn being 87 and much travelled - - you could imagine that Legolas and Arwen had met in Rivendell and that Aragorn met Legolas when he brought Gollum to Mirkwood (if not sooner).

So what's this I hear about Legolas' father having kept Gimli's father imprisoned at some point?

Gimli's father, Gloin, was one of the thirteen dwarves in The Hobbit who were taken prisoner by the King of the Wood Elves, who is Legolas' dad.

[Which means, ironically, that Gimli has the Ring to thank for his existance, since without it, Bilbo wouldn't have been able to get the dwarves out of prison.]

In book canon, is there any reason to believe Legolas actually would have met Aragorn or Arwen before the Council?'

Aragorn, decidedly yes. He was the one who delivered Gollum to Thranduil's house in Mirkwood, expecting teh green elves to keep him properly. That they fucked up in keeping him, and he escaped, is what Legolas is traveling to Rivendell to report. So, the'd probably met then, even if they hadn't in the previous 86 years.

So what's this I hear about Legolas' father having kept Gimli's father imprisoned at some point?

Hobbit business. Thranduil captured all the dwarves in The Hobbit, and they would be there still but for Bilbo and his magical-invisibility-ring. He stuff each dwarf into a barrel and floated them down the river to Dale, where they got out of the barrels and went off to annoy Smaug the Dragon.

It was a whole big (funny) thing, because dwarves don't take kindly to being in a barrel in a river. And it's why, when Bilbo is making up names for himself to Smaug, he calls himself Barrel-rider.

[Which means, ironically, that Gimli has the Ring to thank for his existance, since without it, Bilbo wouldn't have been able to get the dwarves out of prison.]

So, Gimli was conceived after The Hobbit, which make him younger than Bilbo? Huh. I don't know why, but I had always thought of Gimli, though young for a dwarf, still pretty old compared to the hobbits.

Legolas -- we don't know when he was born but I'm guessing after the elves come back from Valinor

I have not myself read the specific notes and passages where this is talked about, but a friend more versed than I did once explain to me that Legolas is slightly less than three thousand years old.

Thranduil (Legolas' dad) was at the battle of the Last Alliance (along with Elrond), but Legolas was not, as he had not been born yet. He was born some time in the next thousand years, and is 2000 and change.

More to the point, Neither Legolas nor Thranduil headed to Valinor. Although they have a permanent invitation, they'd never taken it up. (Unlike Galadriel who went, got in a snit, and came back again.) I got the general impression that a lot of the time, the "lesser" elves were just as happy to stay out of the Noldor's way, and be left alone.

Neither Legolas nor Thranduil headed to Valinor. Although they have a permanent invitation, they'd never taken it up. (Unlike Galadriel who went, got in a snit, and came back again.)

Huh. This thread is better than the Silmawhatsion.