Stop that right now! I can hear the smacking!

Giles ,'Never Leave Me'


We're Literary 2: To Read Makes Our Speaking English Good  

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


Gus - Nov 19, 2005 5:45:40 pm PST #9493 of 10002
Bag the crypto. Say what is on your mind.

You know, I have actually met the dude, and had private conversations with him. He struck me as quite sane. He also struck me as a person who abhors fascism in each of its particular elements.

Carp! This is not about me.

Why are these things never about me?


§ ita § - Nov 19, 2005 5:53:10 pm PST #9494 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I seem to recall OSC having some off politics, but I can't remember what they were.

Mostly I'm just tired of the notes he hits repeatedly in his books -- the exploited angelic genius children get old with me fast.


billytea - Nov 19, 2005 6:02:51 pm PST #9495 of 10002
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Mostly I'm just tired of the notes he hits repeatedly in his books -- the exploited angelic genius children get old with me fast.

This is entirely fair, and if ever I form a rock band, we shall be called the Exploited Angelic Genius Children.


Typo Boy - Nov 19, 2005 6:06:12 pm PST #9496 of 10002
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

Card may be personally sane, but his politics are from my point of view loony (remembering that to many here my politics are ditto).

His claiming that any criticism of "Passion of the Christ" as anti-semitic was a case of Jews telling Christians how to be Christians, his argument that homosexuality is a way god uses to mark some people as unclean and morally unworthy, strike me as two examples of fairly loony political and theological viewpoints; neither one as far as I know is inherent in being a Mormon.


Jessica - Nov 19, 2005 7:30:19 pm PST #9497 of 10002
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

The fact that Card is an ultra-conservative Mormon is not, in and of itself, a reason not to enjoy his later books.

The (just to pick the most concrete example that leaps to mind) transformation of Petra from warrior girl-child to weepy existing-only-to-make-babies teenager, on the other hand, is.

Whether the one informs the other is of no interest to me at all -- I still threw the book across the room.


§ ita § - Nov 19, 2005 7:34:00 pm PST #9498 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Which books was Petra in?


Gus - Nov 19, 2005 7:35:17 pm PST #9499 of 10002
Bag the crypto. Say what is on your mind.

Yak. I -- of all people -- am not going to try to support any of Card's positions. He is not insane or a pederast, just a Mormon, and thereby estranged from reality.


Typo Boy - Nov 19, 2005 7:37:02 pm PST #9500 of 10002
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

Sure: I think a lot of his stuff makes me cringe. And not only his latest. But I really like the first three books in the Alvin Maker series, as well as Ender;s Game, and nothing he writes since will change that for me. Also "Lost Boys" (the novella, not the novel), and a number of others.


Jessica - Nov 19, 2005 7:39:53 pm PST #9501 of 10002
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

Ender's Game, and the Shadow books. She's post-puberty in the second one, which I got about twenty pages in before throwing it across the room. It was just so sickeningly sexist. And badly written.


§ ita § - Nov 19, 2005 7:41:04 pm PST #9502 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Ah. I never tried the Shadow books -- he lost me earlier than that. And it's been a long while since Ender's Game.