You all gonna be here when I wake up?

Mal ,'Out Of Gas'


We're Literary 2: To Read Makes Our Speaking English Good  

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


Fay - Jul 28, 2005 10:44:44 am PDT #8714 of 10002
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Knut, I never thought for a moment that you intended to offend anyone, and I could see that it was intended to be a light-hearted comment. I'm sorry if you felt attacked, and I genuinely did try to respond as calmly and courteously as possible.

Forgive me - I don't mean to belabour the point, but I'm still not 100% sure I've understood you (which seems to be a two-way thing!). Am I right to understand that you read the book believing that Snape was betraying the Order? And that you believed this because of his behaviour in Chapter 2? And that your present stance is that maybe, conceivably the argument for Snape-as-loyal-to-the-Order might be correct, but it seems to be highly unlikely and rather clutching at straws?

When I'm referring to a mislead, I mean the business of Snape convincing Bellatrix (and perhaps the reader) that he has always been loyal to Voldemort. I don't see any conflict here, because the Deatheaters aren't idiots and Snape would naturally be regarded with extreme suspicion, which he would have to allay by persuading them that he was playing Dumbledore. It has to be convincing. But Dumbledore has always trusted Snape, despite the opinions of others, and Dumbledore is not a gullible fool. He does believe that people have the capacity to be good, and to change, but he wasn't fooled by Tom Riddle for a moment. I don't think he's been fooled by Snape. (And, okay, yes, I'm very fond of the Snape-having-been-in-love-with-Lily theory, because Snape goes on and on and on about James, and has been vile to an 11 year old orphan on the basis of his [justifiable] hatred of James - so it's not like Snape's exactly an emotionally mature adult who's moved on and forgotten the passions of his school days. But regardless of whether this will turn out to be his motivation, I think that Dumbledore must have a tangible reason to trust him, because I just don't think Dumbledore is gullible.) So even though Bellatrix buys Snape's argument, I definitely don't. I think JKR is misleading the reader in the same way that she did in previous books over Snape, Quirrel, Moody, Sirius etc. I think it's quite skillfully and successfully done, because a (to me) astonishing number of people do seem to think Snape is a villain.

ita said "I think Harry certainly has legit reasons to hate Snape -- it's the ungrounded leap from hating someone to feeling they're evil that may be the lesson here." And that's very much my reading.

*...damn, how ridiculous do I sound to use a phrase like 'academic integrity' within the context of this discussion about frigging Harry Potter?


Polter-Cow - Jul 28, 2005 10:45:46 am PDT #8715 of 10002
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I wonder if J.K. will write a series of prequel books about Tom Riddle as a kid.

Though I don't see him as the kind of kid to say, "Yippee!"

damn, how ridiculous do I sound to use a phrase like 'academic integrity' within the context of this discussion about frigging Harry Potter?

Huggably ridiculous. {{Fay}}


Anne W. - Jul 28, 2005 10:48:07 am PDT #8716 of 10002
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.

I wonder if J.K. will write a series of prequel books about Tom Riddle as a kid.

In an interview, she said she might consider writing a book about Dumbledore. I wouldn't mind seeing a book about the fight against Grindelwald (or whatever his name is) set against the background of WWII.


Steph L. - Jul 28, 2005 10:53:16 am PDT #8717 of 10002
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

A world of yes! Of course, I've also been wanting them to make real-looking Hogwarts House clothes, and not just for Gryffindor.
I'm *still* looking for a Ravenclaw prefect's badge.

I was just at the library, and they had huge banners for each house hanging in the atrium. I think I squeed just a little bit.


Fay - Jul 28, 2005 10:54:09 am PDT #8718 of 10002
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

I so want a Beauxbatons Patch. Or a Durmstrang Patch. THAT'S the kind of merchandising I like - like being able to buy mugs that are the same shape and design as those used on Star Trek, rather than mugs with Picard on the front. Merchandising that only other hardcore geeks are going to really clock.


Atropa - Jul 28, 2005 10:56:14 am PDT #8719 of 10002
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

Durmstrang patch: [link]

Beauxbatons: [link]

Aaaaand the two-tone silver Hogwarts patch that I just bought: [link]


Lee - Jul 28, 2005 10:59:09 am PDT #8720 of 10002
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

OOh. I want those. I feel like Fay has first dibs though.


Fay - Jul 28, 2005 10:59:43 am PDT #8721 of 10002
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

You go for it, love. I can't get 'em, 'cause I don't have a credit card. But I can admire them from a distance.


DebetEsse - Jul 28, 2005 11:01:14 am PDT #8722 of 10002
Woe to the fucking wicked.

My problem with the Snape thing is that I'm mostly just tired of Dumbledore swearing up and down the he trusts Snape, without telling anyone why. Maybe she'll explain why telling Harry would have been a Very Bad Thing, but I'll take some convincing (And is there no one else in the Order he can trust with the info, so that, if he dies, it's not lost, and just an issue of faith in Dumbledore). I'm tired of it, and I feel like it's been beaten into the ground, and can't possibly live up to the amount of time she's spent hammering "not evil, just an asshole"


Lee - Jul 28, 2005 11:02:03 am PDT #8723 of 10002
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

You go for it, love. I can't get 'em, 'cause I don't have a credit card. But I can admire them from a distance.

Or I could buy them both and then send you one if you send me a mailing address.