Mal: Well, you were right about this being a bad idea. Zoe: Thanks for sayin', sir.

'Serenity'


We're Literary 2: To Read Makes Our Speaking English Good  

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


Fay - Jul 27, 2005 2:45:20 pm PDT #8658 of 10002
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

"I concede that there might have been some scheming going on between Dumbledore and Snape, although in part I think the theory comes from a place of Snape-worship. (Ducks.) "

Wow, that's a difficult comment to address. I find it quite difficult not to be offended by it too, which isn't very constructive of me, and I'll try not to let that colour my response.

I really don't think that I'm guilty of leaving my intellect or critical faculties at the door out of a particularly passionate attachment to, or idealisation of, the character of Snape. I think he's one of the most interesting characters in the series*, because despite being intelligent, talented and passionate about his own stuff he's also quite clearly petty, mean-spirited, emotionally immature and a spectacularly bad teacher. (Let us keep in mind that I'm a primary teacher myself, and that Snape, along with Hagrid, makes me itch to send a Wizarding Ofsted team swooping down on Hogwarts to summarily dismiss half the staff, starting with them.)

I think that JKR loves misdirection, and that she has shown that in every single book in the series. For her to include Chapter 2 if Snape IS indeed working for Voldemort is indeed pointless and flabby writing that undermines the impact of the last chapters. For her to include Hagrid's overhearing of fragments of a conversation between Dumbledore and Snape, and for the trio to leap to the assumption that this backs up their suspicions of Snape, if Snape IS indeed the villain, is clumsy and slap dash and the very opposite of what JKR has done in all the previous books. If, on the other hand, she's feeding the trio red herrings - well, that fits right in with her writing in all the previous books. I wish I had my texts to hand so I could pull out a list of citations - but this is what she does.

I also think that the message that all that is gold does not glitter is a good one, and a damned sight more interesting than 'the ugly, greasy, mean-spirited guy IS evil'. The introduction of Slughorn (and indeed JKR's words in her interviews) back up the notion that her Wizarding worldview is more complex than Slytherin=Villain.

"But, nope on the second chapter. Not saying the first chapter was strong, but as Fay said, it's in keeping with the other books."

Sorry, sorry, I expressed myself badly if you've understood me to be saying this. I think that Chapters 1 and 2 both mark a big step away from the other books. Each book so far has started out with Chapter 1 re-introducing us to Harry Potter in his miserable life in Privet Drive, generally on his miserable birthday. It's been rather comforting and Roald Dahlish. OotP, although my least favourite book in the series, definitely made moves towards taking the HP series away from the traditional children's school book setting. HBP leaps even further by having the first chapter NOT from Harry's POV, NOT introducing us to him on his birthday at Privet Drive. It pulls the rug out from under the reader's feet, confounding expectations by showing us the big picture from an outsider's perspective. Instead of another reassuring summer holiday of discontent, we see some of the chaos errupting into the Muggle world.

"The second, on the other hand, was uncharacteristically clumsy and heavy-handed misdirection, if misdirection it was."

But why do you think this is clumsy and heavy-handed? It seems that your reading experience was not "Oh, please, like I'm going to fall for that!"

*I don't know that I'd say my favourite, at least pre-HBP, because there are lots of her characters I really enjoy. Post HBP, though, he really is, on the basis that (by my understanding of the text) he's doing something really interesting and heroic, despite not being an obviously heroic character.


Kathy A - Jul 27, 2005 2:51:36 pm PDT #8659 of 10002
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

Didn't GoF start with Voldemort's (or Wormtail's--can't remember which) murder of the old Muggle man in Little Haggleton?


Fay - Jul 27, 2005 2:59:10 pm PDT #8660 of 10002
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Damn, I think you're right - that wasn't a prologue, was it, it was actually Chapter 1. So maybe I should look to GoF as the turning point - I suppose that makes more sense, what with it being the first Death-of-Friend book. But we still went and had that whole Harry-spending-Summer-at-the-Dursleys-and-being-miserable chapter, with lots of Harry-Dursleys interaction, whereas here, not so much.


Polter-Cow - Jul 27, 2005 3:12:22 pm PDT #8661 of 10002
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I think that JKR loves misdirection, and that she has shown that in every single book in the series.

Abso-fucking-lutely. It's her MO, and she's really fucking good at it. In every book, she's able to make someone (Snape, I forget the patsy in book 2, Sirius Black, etc.) look villainous from every angle but the right one. And when everything's explained, everything makes sense, because we see most things from Harry's POV.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if, in book 7, we discovered that Voldemort's been good all this time.

Okay, maybe I would be.


Consuela - Jul 27, 2005 3:17:43 pm PDT #8662 of 10002
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

friend of mine works in a library at the U of Alaska in Ketchikan; the chancellor there decided they no longer needed a library and had them get rid of more than half their collection.

t ignores HPB talk (since I still haven't read it) to boggle at this

People are stupid.


Fay - Jul 27, 2005 3:29:37 pm PDT #8663 of 10002
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

People are stupid.

Can't believe I got so sucked into the HBP thing that I forgot to comment. That about blew my mind. 'Cause, yes, let's teach our students that they should blindly believe everything they find via Google is valid academic research.

::facepalm::


Kathy A - Jul 27, 2005 3:30:54 pm PDT #8664 of 10002
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

Voldemort won't be redeemed. He's too evil, even as a little kid. That eleven-year-old boy creeped me out in his converstation with Dumbledore. (BTW, I loved DD's purple velvet outfit here, as well as Harry's comment of "Nice suit, sir." Can't wait to see Gambon wearing it in the movie!)


Consuela - Jul 27, 2005 3:41:22 pm PDT #8665 of 10002
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

On the other hand, Ketchikan is a very small town. I have no idea how big the university is there, but interlibrary loan has to be a bitca.


Polter-Cow - Jul 27, 2005 4:37:58 pm PDT #8666 of 10002
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

A man tries to buy the new Harry Potter at Blockbuster. No, really. It's hilarious. And depressing.


DebetEsse - Jul 27, 2005 4:43:25 pm PDT #8667 of 10002
Woe to the fucking wicked.

HBP:

I, honestly, don't think I'll be terribly happy, whichever way Snape turns out. I'm just tired of the direct, misdirect. However, if he's a good guy, if Dumbledore didn't leave amazingly compelling evidence for Harry to find, which he does find within the first, say 1/3 of the next book, I'm going to be right pissy. That's just poor planning.

I've been intrigued, since I first read it, of the phrasing of the prophecy "Neither can live while the other survives", which I read a little more broadly. Neither of them can have a whole/happy life, as long as the other one is still around. They deny that of each other. Which matches perfectly, IMO, with the idea of a little bit of Voldemort living in Harry, which, I think, happened by accident.

What else, what else...

The shooting down of Remus/Sirius made me too sad to be happy about Remus/Tonks, who are both kickass characters (and Remus the biggest woobie in the world), and I rightfully should be gleeful.

I was rather chuffed as soon as they explained that it was a love-potion Harry was smelling, as the description just screamed Ginny to me.

I really really hope that it doesn't end up being Harry alone vs. Voldemort. The power of love/friendship is too strong in the series for that, IMO.

I'm trying to figure out how the magical creatures fit into it, in the big, final battle. Because they have to, right?