The books in Raquel's first list seem to be more allegorical than those in the second list. I'm starting to get a better sense of the shift on those terms. Allegory came under very serious attack in all lit-crit in the late 60's, I dimly recall.

And yet Micole certainly has a point about the KSR Red/Green/Blue books. They felt to me as thought-experiments, not novels-of-character. Doorstops, indeed, and frankly I suggest anyone interested in reading them should start with Antarctica, which addresses most of the same themes in a much shorter form. *g*

But I'm interested in hearing Raquel talk more about your thesis?

And yet Micole certainly has a point about the KSR Red/Green/Blue books.

Yup. Flat-out allegory. I'm really looking forward to Raquel's return to the topic. It also occurs to me that there was a turning point for SF characters in that they began to have (be shown with) families. A bunch of dynastic stories started showing up. I had the Mars books in that particular mental filing cabinet.

Re: Michael Faber. I tried reading Under the Skin, which I've heard lots of praise for, but it was too bizarre and on the icky side for me to get into.

I just finished Under the Skin. Agree with the bizarreness, but it turned out interesting enough if you like that Sci-Fi sort of thing. Intriguing change of thought perspectives between the woman and her hitchhickers. The Scottish dialects were just amusing to read.

I think I prefer the newer "Victorian era" book, The Crimson Petal and the White. I read it first. Gained appreciation for Faber's style and eye for detail from that. good ending too! The beginning first reminded me of Perfume by Patrick Süskind. realistic description details; not always pretty.

Any Stephen Donaldson fans out there?

From Publisher's Lunch:

The final four books in Stephen R. Donaldson's series THE CHRONICLES OF THOMAS COVENANT, beginning with THE RUNES OF EARTH, to Jennifer Hershey at Putnam, for publication beginning in fall 2004, by Howard Morhaim at the Howard Morhaim Literary Agency. UK rights were sold to Malcolm Edwards at Orion UK. The original six books in the series, published between 1977 and 1983, have sold over 6 million copies.

Film rights have been optioned to Marc Gordon and Peter Winther.

and oh. my goddess, this should be tasty, from the same edition of "Lunch":

Tanith Lee writing as Esther Garber's FATAL WOMEN, a collection of short novels and stories of Lesbian sexual love, to Chris Holroyd at Egerton House Publishing, in a multi-book deal.

and may I just say, glhglhglhglh....

I can't parse that release at all Deb. Is he coming out with more books in the series or were they re-packaged into a smaller number of books? There is no book called "Runes of Earth" that I know of.

If it's a new series, that's interesting because he DIED at the end of the sixth book in both realities (actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if he was dead so much as transformed in The Land, so it may be feasible). The film rights being sold is interesting, but I can't imagine it being done as a movie - mini-series maybe, but if it's not pay cable, it's going to be blanded out and lightened up beyond recognition.

I know the series has more dislikers than likers in these parts, but I'm a sucker for unpleasant anti-heroes. That said, while I finally ended up liking it ultimately, teaming Covenant up with an even more negative, unpleasant and broody heroine for the second series made for a seriously depressing reading experience.

Much preferred the Mordan't Need duo, by a long stretch. Really must get around to The Gap sci-fi series someday.

Ken, the way I'm reading it, there are four new books. Because these aren't listed as reprints.

Idea/Metaphor books: Left Hand of Darkness, The Dispossessed, Ringworld, Stranger in a Strange Land, Gateway, Rendezvous with Rama, The Forever War, Ender's Game.

Okay, I've read 4 of these, and I think I get what is meant by "idea book". It's a book with an intellectual thesis, or a world-construction with same, and characters and/or plot are let loose to prove or disprove the thesis. I do agree with Micole that an idea book may be fraught with character, and it's probably a better book if it is, but I've always seen the four of these that I have read as primarily idea books.

Character books: Red/Green/Blue Mars, Barrayar et al, (Dune? Haven't decided), The Number of the Beast, Friday.

Whereas, of these, I have read only the Barrayar books and Dune, and Dune is 100% in the other category for me. (That goes triple, for any of the Dune sequels.) Bujold's books are indeed character-driven, inasmuch as they tend to star the same people, and be about the major events in those people's lives, and any theses are background rather than upfront prove-or-disprove items.

I would have said, since plot/character/not-really-idea fiction has existed since time out of mind, it's more profitable to try to mark where the idea books started to discover they too had to make at least a passing nod toward the standard signifiers of "good book" quality to make it in the marketplace. This perhaps has something to do with my abject dislike of the old-style idea-book "masters" and their Clenchy McLockjaw characterizations and crappy prose.

AP review of the stage adaptation of His Dark Materials: "it is an undertaking that can be admired for sheer bravado even as the results prompt ambivalence".

IHT review [page through, it's the 2nd half of the article]

Excerpts from several UK papers, courtesy of the BBC