I like Hagrid, too, but I'm pretty outside Potter Fandom except for Am and Pandarus.
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erikaj - Jul 29, 2004 4:50:24 pm PDT #5421 of 10002
Always Anti-fascist!
Trudy Booth - Jul 29, 2004 4:52:25 pm PDT #5422 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart
I think there is a lot of classism in Hagrid's relationship to Dumbledore particularly. It's a sort of obsequiousness that I noticed in England that is distinct and yet not necessarily offensive. I can't think of a parallel in contemporary American culture.
And they're all magical. In fact, he's the least magical character at Hogwarts.
§ ita § - Jul 29, 2004 4:54:42 pm PDT #5423 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
If Hagrid were not dumb or a half-breed, I might agree with it.
As is, he seems to be the touchstone -- all the good guys like him, the bad guys hate him, and it's that simple, because he's simple.
I don't see anything British about that -- American fiction will do that with someone pejoratively other too.
eta: Trudy -- you are familiar with the Magical Negro trope, right? That's what I was referring to.
Trudy Booth - Jul 29, 2004 5:00:00 pm PDT #5424 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart
I am familiar with and similarly annoyed by the Magical Negro.
Hagrid is a modern version of the faithful retainer, the loyal servant who is respected and honored by his social betters. He makes me think of all those Masterpiece Theatre films with the lord and his butler who went to war with him and they really love each other but they are very much defined by their positions-- and it's somehow more, well, ok than it could be in any contemporary American context.
§ ita § - Jul 29, 2004 5:10:36 pm PDT #5425 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Sorry -- I thought you were interpreting my usage of "magical" in a Hogwarts context, not as a trope.
I know what you're referring to, Trudy. But at least when I was reading UK kiddie lit -- that faithful retainer was not simple the way Hagrid is, nor as polarising. Things may have swung around since I was a teenager there -- but the bulk of the YA I've read has been English, and it's just not familiar to me -- do you have cites, or is it a callback to earlier (simpler) times?
eta: And really, shift the timeline back 50 years or so, make Hagrid a black woman, and you have the same thing.
Connie Neil - Jul 29, 2004 7:10:26 pm PDT #5426 of 10002
brillig
Hagrid is a modern Samwise Gamgee.
§ ita § - Jul 29, 2004 7:24:02 pm PDT #5427 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Except Sam doesn't need anyone to make excuses for him.
Connie Neil - Jul 29, 2004 7:25:52 pm PDT #5428 of 10002
brillig
I don't get hte parallel, ita.
§ ita § - Jul 29, 2004 7:28:19 pm PDT #5429 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Neither do I, Connie.
I mean, the parallel between Hagrid and Samwise is what I don't get. Sam's full of his own agency, but it's something he's chosen to dedicate to Frodo. He's not inept. He may not be as sophisticated as Frodo (because hobbits are oh-so-posh), but he's not the bumbling figure Hagrid is.
Connie Neil - Jul 29, 2004 7:51:39 pm PDT #5430 of 10002
brillig
Hagrid could leave Hogwarts if he wanted, but he's loyal to Dumbledore. Sam was Frodo's gardener because Gaffer Gamgee was Bilbo's gardener--Gamgees pretty much come with the property. I don't see Hagrid as being deficient or lacking in any way. And he doesn't seem bumbling as much as giant-sized in a human-sized world. Granted, Hagrid's not the brightest candle on the shelf, but Dumbledore trusts him with very sensitive errands.