Angel: I can stay in town as long as you want me. Buffy: How's forever? Does forever work for you?

'Lies My Parents Told Me'


We're Literary 2: To Read Makes Our Speaking English Good  

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


brenda m - Jul 12, 2004 1:19:45 pm PDT #5071 of 10002
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

I'm not sure that it's a metaphor for life under fascism specifically so much as a metaphor for life under any sort of totalitarian regime.

Huh. I'm not clear on the distinction you're making here. More, please?

The quarantine of the city seems to be more the central metaphor.

I think the isolation is a central part of what he's getting at though, where connections between normal people are suddenly fraught with uncertainty and fear, and outside elements virtually irrelevant except insofar as they try/fail to help.

It's not like those who die from the plague are spewing pro-fascist rhetoric or that only the wholly deserving or undeserving catch it.

Again, I don't see that as detracting from the metaphor.

What I do think detracts from it is that by using a biological agent as a stand-in for (pick a regime, any regime) the element of human choice and malice is sort of elided away, suggesting that totalitarianism itself is some sort of force of nature, not a human construct.


Nutty - Jul 12, 2004 1:37:41 pm PDT #5072 of 10002
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Right. Saying plague = fascism makes fascism sound like "just one of those unlucky things" that sometimes happens and nobody is implicated in it. Which is crap.

I can sort of see the quarantined city = life in a totalitarian state, except that the quarantine was such a minor part of the novel, for me. Like, it was a psychological blow, for all the people who couldn't leave; but mostly it was just a thing that you do when you've got plague in your city, another detail to chafe at. People weren't restricted from going to churches -- there were standing room only crowds! -- and bootlegging and smooching and smuggling all continued as always.

And anyway, the point of the novel, for me, was that the plague would run its course, and some would die and some wouldn't, and all that could be done was pitch in an ease the suffering of the ill and the frightened. Dilletante Volunteer Boy's death isn't a tragedy or a wild statement against fascism or plague or anything -- it's just a death, and the virtuous as much as the shitty are cut down. And after all, the only thing the doctor could offer was comfort, in his doctoring people, and memory, in his recording what he witnessed.

Nunberg's article brought up a Camus quote (didn't say where it's from) to the effect that Robespierre-style "terror" was in love with the absolute, and thus akin to fascism, which I think is true, but I can't for the life of me relate that to The Plague.


Hayden - Jul 12, 2004 1:38:57 pm PDT #5073 of 10002
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

I'm not disagreeing with you, Brenda. I'm supporting your point in part and saying that it's not necessarily a metaphor for fascism (a point you appear to agree with), but for any form of totalitarian government. And that the plague itself is not as important as the way which it affects the city. But, if I recall correctly, the official malice in the book isn't created by the plague, but by the isolation. The city officials who round up the sick aren't afflicted, but taking advantage of affliction. Which works on a broad level (i.e. ethically and morally corrupt people will take power in situations where they can), but not on a specific level of having any sort of one-to-one comparison to situations in Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, or Stalinist Russia.


joe boucher - Jul 12, 2004 1:43:07 pm PDT #5074 of 10002
I knew that topless lady had something up her sleeve. - John Prine

Or French-occupied Algeria.


Hayden - Jul 12, 2004 1:44:06 pm PDT #5075 of 10002
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

There is that.


Glamcookie - Jul 12, 2004 2:38:55 pm PDT #5076 of 10002
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I'm reading The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay and I'm to the part where Thomas' ship was torpedoed. t sob


erikaj - Jul 12, 2004 2:51:53 pm PDT #5077 of 10002
Always Anti-fascist!

I know...that's horrible, GC. One thing I admire about that book is its ability to carry so many moods and do them all believably, if that makes any kind of sense.


Glamcookie - Jul 12, 2004 2:53:53 pm PDT #5078 of 10002
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

Yes, erika. I love the way the book is so immersed in the time period (40s). The language and everything is so fun! Poor Joe, though. I can barely stand it.


Steph L. - Jul 12, 2004 3:25:29 pm PDT #5079 of 10002
I look more rad than Lutheranism

GC, I think I gasped out loud at that part.


Connie Neil - Jul 13, 2004 4:49:38 am PDT #5080 of 10002
brillig

Yeehah! We got us a book club!