Y'all see the man hanging out of the spaceship with the really big gun? Now I'm not saying you weren't easy to find. It was kinda out of our way, and he didn't want to come in the first place. Man's lookin' to kill some folk. So really it's his will y'all should worry about thwarting.

Mal ,'Safe'


We're Literary 2: To Read Makes Our Speaking English Good  

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


§ ita § - Jul 11, 2004 4:42:16 pm PDT #4982 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I always figured it meant "Well, it depends on where you're standing," but that's mostly from physics.


Betsy HP - Jul 11, 2004 5:35:26 pm PDT #4983 of 10002
If I only had a brain...

Me, too, ita.


JoeCrow - Jul 11, 2004 5:50:01 pm PDT #4984 of 10002
"what's left when you take biology and sociology out of the picture?" "An autistic hermaphodite." -Allyson

I think that a lot of the problems that arise from the use of post-structuralism and relativism come from the fact that while both are very useful intellectual tools, the vast majority of the people who use them in public really aren't qualified to do so, and are in fact using the mental equivalents of a very complex surgical machine (read: post-structuralism) and a set of finely machined calipers (relativism) as essentially a pair of hammers to beat their daft ideas into students' heads.

And, to leap back a bit more in the conversation, I think one of the major reasons why reading is on such a steep decline in Amurikah is because of the way it's presented in school. Outside of the tireless efforts of a few heroic individuals, most of the teachers I had presented reading as a chore, something to be done because they were required to assign books to us, rather than as something to be done for the joy of it. My best teachers approached reading assignments as an opportunity to introduce us to neat things that would also teach us what we needed to know, but they were few and far between. Fortunately, I was raised in a bookish household, and came to reading outside the scholastic environment. That's where I caught the bug, not in class.


Betsy HP - Jul 11, 2004 6:09:55 pm PDT #4985 of 10002
If I only had a brain...

most of the teachers I had presented reading as a chore, something to be done because they were required to assign books to us, rather than as something to be done for the joy of it.

Oh, God, YES. I can't tell you how many reading contests my kids' schools have had, where you read so many books and get a prize, so many more books and get a bigger prize....

Reading IS the prize. Paying somebody to read tells them it's something that they wouldn't want to do otherwise.


Strega - Jul 11, 2004 6:13:22 pm PDT #4986 of 10002

So relativism doesn't mean "you can't judge things without a common standard", it means "there is no standard, and can't be one"?

Again, taken to extremes. It's useful to question what the standards are and examine them for bias. It just gets taken to an absurd level at times.


§ ita § - Jul 11, 2004 6:19:28 pm PDT #4987 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Reading IS the prize. Paying somebody to read tells them it's something that they wouldn't want to do otherwise.

While I get this (and regarded reading competitions as easy loot), isn't it key to get them reading? I mean, how can you convince a kid reading's fun if they don't read?

Kids get rewarded for a bunch of stuff. I probably would have gotten scorned or punished for not reading, so that was my external motivation. Just turns our I didn't much need it.


Hil R. - Jul 11, 2004 6:29:06 pm PDT #4988 of 10002
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

The library where I grew up had a reading fundraiser every summer. All the kids would get people to pledge a certain amount per book read, and then we'd keep track of what we read all summer. There were prizes at the end of the summer for the kid in each age range who read the most books, and the kid who raised the most money, which went into the fund for building an addition onto the library. For really little kids, books that were read to them counted. (My parents usually warned people not to pledge more than about 25 cents per book for me, because I could easily read close to 100 books in a summer.)

I never really thought of it as rewards for reading before. It was always framed as raising money for the library. There would be a theme each year, like it was dinosaurs one year, and each kid would put his or her name on something related, like a picture of a dinosaur pawprint, and they they'd move along the wall toward the "dinosaur cave" set up in one corner of the children's section as you read more books. Then they'd have a special section set up with all the kid-level books about dinosaurs.

The thing that I did see as "rewards for reading" and didn't really like the tone of was the Book-It program, which we had around fifth grade. That was "read a certain number of books in a month, and get a sticker on your Book-It button." Then with those stickers, you could go to Pizza Hut and get a free personal pan pizza. Since nobody in my family liked Pizza Hut, I never got the pizza, but it just seemed silly to have that set number of books to read to get stuff, especially when that stuff was stuff that your parents would have to drive you and buy other stuff for you to get. (And the number was something like 5.)


Daisy Jane - Jul 11, 2004 7:06:35 pm PDT #4989 of 10002
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

I very much remember where I got my reading love from. First, my parents were huge with acknowledging the slightest smat thing I did. As soon as I learned to add 2+2 my parents were showing me that it wasn't much harder to add 2222+2222 and so on. As soon as I could read cat, I was taught any word that began or had cat in it. And every time I figured the stuff out on my own my parents would show me off. It was generally the only attention I got, so I learned as much as I could as quickly as I could to have more stuff to show off.

Mom also read to me constantly. My first book I remember was Charlotte's Web, in bed every night with mom. I still read like that. At least a chapter when I read. I'm sure there were books like Goodnight moon and Little Bear, but those were read on my own. I also used to take my mother's books and tell my parents to sit down so I could read to them. I couldn't actually read her books, or at least I couldn't follow them, but my parents sat there while I read a Harlequin romance and pretended it was a story about dinosaurs and kings.


DavidS - Jul 11, 2004 7:10:17 pm PDT #4990 of 10002
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

My parents weren't readers. The lady across the street, Buddy Newbury, taught me how to read. We started with dinosaurs. Then she talked my Mom into getting the mail order Dr. Seuss books and I was off.


Betsy HP - Jul 11, 2004 7:12:28 pm PDT #4991 of 10002
If I only had a brain...

The thing that I did see as "rewards for reading" and didn't really like the tone of was the Book-It program, which we had around fifth grade. That was "read a certain number of books in a month, and get a sticker on your Book-It button."

That's the sort of thing my kids' schools did. Read-A-Thons sound cool, actually.