Hamlet? I maintain that play is misclassified among Shakespeare's work, and should be counted among the comedies, though it's the blackest of black comedies. It was the Reservoir Dogs of its time.
No shit! I mean, really -- there's a fistfight IN AN OPEN GRAVE! Supah-dupah black comedy.
I am not nearly smart enough for this thread. I used to think I was a smarty-pants, but not after meeting the Buffistas.
Pish and tush, m'dear. You're good enough, you're smart enough, and what with the writing classes and the essays you got to read on the radio, you already have an apartment in the City.
I wasn't looking for reassurance. It's just that, out of the authors you listed in the City, I believe I've read 6 or 7, if I can count Nancy Drew and Encyclopedia Brown.
I feel like I've been a poseur all this time, when I meet people who have read -- and rave about -- authors I've never ever heard of.
I used to think I was a smarty-pants, but not after meeting the Buffistas.
The Internet does this to me in a big way. I'm a better writer than most people, okay? Writing and standardized tests are the only two things I ever felt remotely capable at in school. I earn my living reading and writing, and have never found the writing part difficult.
But if I'm in the top tenth percentile of writers and in terms of intelligence in real life, I'm in the bottom quarter among my internet friends here and on LiveJournal. Which isn't really a knock on myself, and I'm not trying to solicity pity or anything -- y'all are Just That Smart.
I feel like I've been a poseur all this time, when I meet people who have read -- and rave about -- authors I've never ever heard of.
But, but if you'd read everything so that you never felt like people had read stuff you hadn't, then you'd have read everything, and what's the fun in that?
Did that make sense?
It's just that, out of the authors you listed in the City, I believe I've read 6 or 7, if I can count Nancy Drew and Encyclopedia Brown.
I've read two, counting those. Possibly four, if a)I have actually read Nesbit and not just read about Nesbit and b)an abridged version of Great Expectations in 9th grade counts as reading Dickens.
But, but if you'd read everything so that you never felt like people had read stuff you hadn't, then you'd have read everything, and what's the fun in that?
Being able to discuss it with other people who swoon and gush and squee over it.
JZ, I love that metaphor.
It seems most simply to me that if this is honestly not where you can get your crit on, get it somewhere else.
My beef is that I
was
having a discussion here and it was derailed by the usual chorus of hatin' on serious books. I wasn't trying to force deeper discussion - a discussion about canon was already happening. And then as individual names came up, people made one line comments about what they hated, or expressed their dislike of critical discussion.
Which, to me, is not that different than rolling your eyes forever when people talk about how cute their cats are. Our community standard is that if you don't want to participate in a conversation you do not try to undermine it either.
So I'm surprised that you're surprised people got all up in arms.
I'm not surprised - I knew I was being critical and some people would take it personally (and how could they not?). I don't think I would've broached it if Hayden hadn't spoken up first, but his complaint was the same thing that had bugged me not only today, but previously in this thread, and I agreed with him.
But things I particularly liked about MM were the so-hated omniscient voice
Is the omniscient voice hated? Man, no wonder I'm leary of over-identifying with the characters, in my heart of hearts I think first person singular is cheating. (Yes, I realize that's indefensible and I'd have my own handy list of exceptions. That's just my bias and I'm copping to it.)
Hec, I'm sure you didn't intend to, but your post could be read to suggest that we Must Love and Respect the Canon.
I don't see how you could possibly extract that from the quote you referenced. Here it is:
However, resentment about canonical good books, and being beaten around the head with Must Read and Must Respect has fostered a vibe in here such that poor, whiny, weak Mme. Bovary gets kicked in the teeth, and punched in the kidneys every time she wanders into this thread.
My tone and word choice are pretty indicative that I understand the complaints of the people who were "beaten around the head" and were forced to read things they didn't like, and were sneered at for disliking what they were forced to read. I don't know how you could possibly construe that to mean I was endorsing "you must love and respect the canon."
Thousands of books, one show per thread. Occam and Soul Coughing suggest that Correlation is not Causation in this case.
I do think that is a factor, perhaps the biggest factor. However, plenty of people on the other side of the argument from me have expressed both their defensiveness and their distaste for literary criticism. I don't think my initial charge is baseless or unsupported by all the many posts that have happened since. To the contrary.
Anyway. I got no more corpsified horses to whomp. I'm as clarified as butter. The drift of the conversation here over the last 100 posts or so is...nice. Don't mean to drag things backward.
Jacqueline - City of Literature, Castle of Shakespeare...?
you're not a poseur unless you acted like you had knowledge you didn't and I guess if you buy into the notion that unless you've read the canon you aren't smart.
Since I am familiar with Columbia's take on the West Civ canon, I would suggest if you wanted to dive in, but do so with some sort of guide, maybe pick up David Denby's "Great Books" and read the books he discusses in there at the same time. Huge chunks of stuff woudl be missed and glossed over (specifically women and more modern stuff), but it would be good if you want to just start atthe beginning.
(which should NEVER be split in half. Yes, Mr. Gibson, I'm looking at you):
Oh HELL yeah.
Jilli, if I were to recommend a "classic," my rec would probably be Harper Lee's To Kill A Mockingbird.
