However, resentment about canonical good books, and being beaten around the head with Must Read and Must Respect has fostered a vibe in here such that poor, whiny, weak Mme. Bovary gets kicked in the teeth, and punched in the kidneys every time she wanders into this thread.
That's because she deserves it. Also, to be nuked from orbit. Irritating cow.
There is, quite regularly, a gleeful lashing out at serious fiction that people dislike. I do think there is a cumulative effect produced by people piling on - it's just a thread dynamic - but I think the effect is real.
As the main basher of the Bovine, I'd like to point out that other things I've mocked gleefully include Spider Robinson, Dan Brown, and probably other popular fiction that makes me wince at the pained and purple prose. Fiction with priaprism is not a pretty thing.
I am saying that the fact that there aren't literary discussions here comparable to the in-depth show discussions suggests that there is some pressure which prevents it.
Thousands of books, one show per thread. Occam and Soul Coughing suggest that Correlation is not Causation in this case.
If only he'd been allowed to be human, like Gwendolen, or Gwendolen's bastard of a husband, the book would have worked much better.
I think the reason I liked Daniel was his questing -- he's clearly Mister Perfect, but he's also vague and unformed and dithery about his future. If he hadn't had The Big Secret of his life, he might have ended up a wonderful dilletante. And I just absolutely fell in love with the way he could care for Gwendolen, and be kind to her, through her agony of becoming a grownup. Actually, you know, it is the relationships Daniel has that stay with me from that novel: Daniel and Mordecai; Daniel and sir Hugo; Daniel and Gwendolen.
And Gwendolen's painful growing up. Her sections were a bit dull at the beginning, but by the end, I wept for her.
It contains the only child death in Dickens, and one of the only child deaths in all of literature, that makes me sob every time I read it.
Not a tear for Jo in
Bleak House??
Nothing for "Dead! Dead, my lords and gentlewomen. Dead, you Right Reverends and wrong reverends of every order, Dead, men and women, born with heavenly compassion in you hearts. And dying thus around us, every day." --? Oh, JZ is shunned!!
Yes, that is a legitimate response; double, if you come from New England.
You know, I'd never thought of the New England factor, but it makes so much sense now.
Right now I'm waiting for my copy of The Long Goodbye to come in.
I know this isn't the movie thread, but if you haven't already, 'suela, after you've read it, whether you like it or not, it would be interesting to rent the movie. If you've got a particular dislike of Altman, Elliot Gould (but really good Elliot Gould) and/or seventies cinema (not really a genre, but there is a certain distinct something to a lot of it) then ignore the advice, but it's an interesting comparison/contrast. Plus the screenplay's by Leigh Brackett who also wrote the script for the Hawks BIG SLEEP (among several other Hawks movies, and THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK).
Thousands of books, one show per thread. Occam and Soul Coughing suggest that Correlation is not Causation in this case.
Yes, this. Thank you, Plei.
Is it time to invoke Nutty's Law? Quite possibly. It's not like anyone here is too retiring to make their case.
Occam and Soul Coughing suggest that Correlation is not Causation in this case.
t Hearting
Plei right now.
I go to sleep now, and await the massive flaming I will receive whilst I'm gone.
Sean, my only "flame" is that your comment belongs in the Music thread, where the people who hang out there can respond to your accusation of elitism there.
Nothing for "Dead! Dead, my lords and gentlewomen. Dead, you Right Reverends and wrong reverends of every order, Dead, men and women, born with heavenly compassion in you hearts. And dying thus around us, every day."
What's that from! Amazing how a good quote will suck me in.
And Gwendolen's painful growing up. Her sections were a bit dull at the beginning, but by the end, I wept for her.
Gwendolen is the part of that book that works for me. I liked her from the beginning.
Esther Summerson, now -- there I had a similar trajectory to the one you described. At the beginning I wanted to strangle her for her continual hesitation and self-deprecation and overweening humility (one of my professors made a good case for this as one a realistic portrait of psychological damage -- quite different from the effect Dickens was going for in the rest of the book -- but it still grated terribly), and then by the end I felt deeply and terribly for her.
