Nothin'. I just wanted you to face me so she could get behind ya.

Mal ,'The Train Job'


We're Literary 2: To Read Makes Our Speaking English Good  

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


DavidS - Jul 01, 2004 9:57:30 am PDT #3833 of 10002
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Hec, did you actually enjoy any of those writers? Did they tickle something, anything, other than the cerebral? Was there a kick in the soul for you, with one single book by any of those people?

Well, what's wrong with a cerebral tickle?

Aside from that notion, that's not all I get from my reading. It's not an exercise in mental masturbation, or lining up allegorical symbols into neat orderly rows.

eta: or getting Teppy's nerd joy of making connections.

I think that reading a good novel is the closest you can get to being inside somebody else's head. So it's not all about the narrative to me, but rather encountering an entirely different sensibility. It's seeing the world differently, and understanding people's motives differently, and noticing things that I wouldn't normally notice, and processing it all in a completely different way and coming to new conclusions.

If a writer is very intimately concerned with creating a character's interior landscape, and can take me there, that is very valuable to me, aside from the story being told. So yes, all of the writers I alluded to give me something more than a puzzle to cogitate on. And the more critically I can read them, the more I understand their intent, and their context (see, Nutty's point re: Walter Scott and Austen) the more closely I can follow the subtle turns of their prose.

Shakespeare's sonnets are another example where context is key. He was actively pissing on and destroying the rather dopey romantic cliches of his day. He was taking a very formulaic medium - something as rigid as a Harlequin romance - and investing it with almost perverse glee, self laceration, layered psychological insight and incredible language. That's exactly the context that generates a line like "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day."

And, Aimee, it's completely fine with me that you don't enjoy Shakespeare, but I will note that his nearest contemporary in spirit would probably be Eddie Izzard. Shakespeare can be difficult to penetrate because so much of his language is rooted in the folklore and politics and history and faux-science of his era. But that's not much different than Izzard's quick, witty allusions to our culture today. And Shakespeare, like Eddie, is bawdy, playful, light-footed, sexy, transgressive, polymorphously perverse.

Also Shakespeare's theater didn't really use sets. So much of Shakespeare's language is really storytelling to set the scene. And instead of dry exposition, he allows each character a particular sort of metaphoric schema that both defines that character and fills the language with imagery. Iago being one of the classic examples, where all of his references are bestial and debased.


Calli - Jul 01, 2004 9:58:06 am PDT #3834 of 10002
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

I had a great big nerd jones for more connections like that.

I've gotta admit, I love moments like that. But I also like canon because it has made me go back and retry things that didn't work for me the first time. If professors who I happened to like hadn't kept telling me that F. Scott Fitzgerald was the best thing since bottled gin, I wouldn't have given The Great Gatsby a second try. And I'm very glad I did.


Lilty Cash - Jul 01, 2004 10:00:17 am PDT #3835 of 10002
"You see? THAT's what they want. Love, and a bit with a dog."

We truly are each other! It's one of my favorites, too. I have too many favorites to have a one true favorite, but I loves me some Betty Smith.

And, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe Nilly commented that I must talk to you after I said I got trapped on my only day off this month because PBS had an Anne of Green Gables marathon on?

Frolics in field with Aimee.


Steph L. - Jul 01, 2004 10:01:16 am PDT #3836 of 10002
I look more rad than Lutheranism

eta: or getting Teppy's nerd joy of making connections.

Nerd joy rules.

But I also like canon because it has made me go back and retry things that didn't work for me the first time.

Really? I still flee screaming into the night from Faulkner, Melville (Bartelby excepted), and Willa Cather.


Aims - Jul 01, 2004 10:03:09 am PDT #3837 of 10002
Shit's all sorts of different now.

And, Aimee, it's completely fine with me that you don't enjoy Shakespeare, but I will note that his nearest contemporary in spirit would probably be Eddie Izzard.

I would agree with that, but Eddie doesn't perform in sonnets and language that confuzzles me. It's not that it's rooted in politics or folklore, etc...it's his use of the language and the structure that turn me off.


Daisy Jane - Jul 01, 2004 10:05:17 am PDT #3838 of 10002
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

n other words (and yes, I'm being partially flippant again), canon exists to make the nerds giddy when they make those connections.

This is fine by me.

I would say Steph is me, but she doesn't like Willa Cather.


Steph L. - Jul 01, 2004 10:06:05 am PDT #3839 of 10002
I look more rad than Lutheranism

it's his use of the language and the structure that turn me off.

Quite honestly? I much prefer watching a performance of Shakespeare, rather than reading one of his plays.


DavidS - Jul 01, 2004 10:06:30 am PDT #3840 of 10002
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I love Willa Cather. And Melville for that matter.


Daisy Jane - Jul 01, 2004 10:06:31 am PDT #3841 of 10002
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

it's his use of the language and the structure that turn me off.

That's exactly what turns me on about it.


DavidS - Jul 01, 2004 10:08:37 am PDT #3842 of 10002
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I'd rather read Shakespeare mostly.

Another canon note: Much of what we consider literature today wasn't considered particularly literary or High Culture when it came out. Shakespeare, obviously, was pure popular culture. Ditto for Twain and Dickens. The novel itself was generally considered a rather low form of women's entertainment for a long time. (Until men started writing them. Aha, sexism again!)