I couldn't concentrate on that, I was too busy being confused when they moved scenes around. I was furious when I left the movie.

I totally grok that. But if you can, separate the soundtrack from the movie and give it a listen; it isn't Henry V or The Lion in Winter (best soundtrack ever!), but it's damned close.

I think what we are to take away is that, after that, all of his plays are for her.

Yup - that was my take, as well.

And I will stand at your back with my crossbow and defend your right to watch it. The minute you tell me I have to love it because it's all modern and metaphorical and stuff, though? Bad Things.

Total wroditude. I saw an interesting Edwardian King John at our Stratford once, but generally I much prefer the more traditionally staged versions. I usually find the retellings to be painful, even I am sympathetic to the attempts.

OH! There is one extremely well-done Hamlet version that I nearly forgot about entirely: Kevin Kline, on Broadway, filmed for PBS. Judith Ivey as Gertrude, and (swooning here) Diane Venora as Ophelia. I think she later went on to do the play in men's clothes, and played Hamlet herself.

The scene I love best in "Shakespeare in Love" is when he's explaining how "Romeo & Juliet" will end, and (I've forgotten the character's name) Paltrow closes her eyes in pain when he says R&J kill themselves.

Oh wait. Her character's name is actually Viola, isn't it? That's where he gets the name? I could be wrong on this, though.

God I love this conversation. Having taught Hamlet using all three of the major versions (Olivier, Branagh, and Gibson), I have to say that I like watching them best all together, because then I can take the aspects I like about each and smoosh them together into the version I would love to see.

Actually, I just recently saw a fabulous stage production of Hamlet that reinterpreted the Dane as younger and much more vulnerable than I had ever seen before (a lover, not a fighter--a kind of overgrown teenager not quite knowing what to do with the pressure of violence). I thought I was going to hate it for the first few minutes and then grew to really love it by the end. It's not so much that I prefer that intepretation, but it made me think about the role in a new way.

I'm don't have my PhD in it or anything, but considering I've taught the play extensively, seen a dozen or more stage performances, and watched most of the filmed versions out there, I was pretty impressed with the fact that this director made me consider the lines in an entirely different way.

Okay I know, I know! Working, not playing!

t thwaps hand again

Could you all go back to talking about Joyce? I'm a complete moron when it comes to Joyce and therefore don't feel the need to inflict my ignorance on you.

Was that the one with Diana Rigg as Regan and Leo McKern as Gloucester? Or was that a later version Olivier did for the Beeb?

Rigg, McKern, Tuten at all. That's the one.

There is one extremely well-done Hamlet version that I nearly forgot about entirely: Kevin Kline, on Broadway, filmed for PBS. Judith Ivey as Gertrude, and (swooning here) Diane Venora as Ophelia.

Oh, yes. That is fantastic.

The best Shrew I've ever seen was the tape of the American Conservatory Theatre's production. The BeastMaster himself, Marc Singer, was Petruchio, and he was quite good. The entire thing was done as a commedia dell'arte, with a latticework on each side and arching over that the actors not on stage hung out on (literally), and a very springy floor. It was amazing.

Well, and of course the conceit of 12th Night is that the protagonist is a girl who dresses as a boy and falls in love with her male coworker. (And also, there's the whole theme about the the responsibilities of nobles to their lesser kin/hangers-on, which resonates nicely with Judi Dench and her irritating court.) Except the play's Viola is actually happy to put the dress back on at the end.

(I read an article, when that movie originally came out, that described some of the more common "Shakespeare has an annus mirabilis right before writing R & J" speculations, and decried the film for not going a more complex or surprising route. The author suggested that Shakespeare and Marlowe should have fallen in love, and Marlowe's death to have been the kick in the butt Shakespeare needed to improve his writing. Anyway, it would explain some of the gender trouble of the plays.)

(I also read a short story where Shakespeare and Marlowe switched identities, and it was Will-as-Marlowe who was murdered, and Kit-as-Shakespeare stayed away from Stratford for the next 20 years so "his" wife wouldn't know of the switch. I don't think this would explain why everyone today seems to esteem Marlowe higher than even later Shakespeare, but it was a cute idea.)

I have yet to see an Ophelia I really like. Playing "crazy" is such a difficult thing to pull off -- the only actor (male or female) I can think of off the top of my head who does it well is Ben Browder.