Heh. Off-topic, but Kristin, ought to let you know, the whole "your favourite flavour is (choose one) vanilla, strawberry, chocolate or spumoni" thing with me is a very very very old 'Deb doesn't do that' deal - I invariably answer look, this is insane, did you mean today? Do I have a headache? Who am I with? Do my shoes hurt? How was the morning news? What's the weather doing?"

I'm completely in the minority, but we've had this discussion, both here and other places - I think it was Natter - quite a few times.

I know they can be incredibly useful, although I remain violently opposed to using them for workplace screening, because they can mean that the best person for the job is swept aside for a better personality fit, something I dislike intensely; it ought to be both.

I just mean that I tend to be in the whackaloon little one bazillionth of crazy people who send the test results skewwhopping, because I do not cohere.

What's more? If anyone demanded that I take it, I'd deliberately fill in the wrong answers, just to mess with them. So I won't take the things.

the best person for the job is swept aside for a better personality fit

Well, it's not like personality fit doesn't factor into "best person for the job."

Well, it's not like personality fit doesn't factor into "best person for the job."

Yes, I agree. That's why I ended the sentence with "it ought to be both".

I do think skill set has to be considered as much as anything else. And what happens if the test is administered to someone who wants the job is doing their best to fill in the answers they think the employer wants to hear?

But I honestly do not want to argue this, because there's no argument. As stated, I do grok the usefulness of the tests. I just said, and continue to say, that I don't believe in them for myself, and wouldn't take one, not that the rest of the world shouldn't.

ita, it turns out this McDermid character is a series, even. This one is fun and (relatively) light. FYI.

I invariably answer look, this is insane, did you mean today? Do I have a headache? Who am I with? Do my shoes hurt? How was the morning news? What's the weather doing?"

I'm giggling, because after using and teaching the MBTI for years (and Deb, to be clear, I don't just "give a test" on this -- I teach what each of the four pairs mean in terms of preference and then the students select from each), I have heard that argument a hundred times...from people with a strong "P" preference of the J/P pair. That pair is all about how you like to live your daily life -- a J likes a plan, a schedule, a decision. A P likes to leave every option open and will often refuse to make a decision out of anger at being "forced into a box". Hee hee hee.

I do agree that I would never ever use it as a job screening, however, because the biggest thing we teach about the MBTI is that everyone is capable of doing all 8 of the possibilities, and that different situations bring out different responses. Anyway, I'll drop it. I don't mean to start a debate. Just thought that was funny.

Heh. They just had a big MBTI thing at work when I started, and tested everyone and talked about all the types and told us where everyone in the company is. It was interesting, but a little odd. I LOVED that one of the last questions on the test was "How many of these questions did you want to argue about/disagree with the answers?" (or somethign along those lines), because I was very "ALL OF THEM".

Er, and um, books are good. My job has a big "cafeteria" (some tables, vending machines, and a microwave and fridge), and in it there's a bookshelf with random books on it, mostly mysteries. I found two that are about a husband and wife, where he's a doctor and she's a coroner. They're kinda cute. Very medical. Which is fun for me.

I do think skill set has to be considered as much as anything else

And only crappy employers wouldn't I wager. If they weren't hosing you over MBTI, they'd be hosing you over something else.

The test that my MI job used was reputedly unfakeable. Or at least, you couldn't predict the results you'd get by faking it, since it took your answers and mapped them against a database of known quantities, instead of actually interpreting them.

This one is fun and (relatively) light. FYI.

Ta. I'm onto Shadow Man (which is mainly confusing me -- too much alien language introduced too quickly), but maybe I should put in some pre-emptive library reservations. My actual branch sucks hairy root. I've never found anything there I was looking for.

Oh, and, from her site:

The title Wire in the Blood - where it came from and what it means..

The phrase "the wire in the blood" comes from T.S. Eliots "Four Quartets". - "The trilling wire in the blood/sings below inveterate scars/appeasing long-forgotten wars."

As for the meaning..
In an interview Robson Green said the phrase "wire in the blood" was taken to mean a genetic kink, something impure and unusual in the blood, that leads to the kind of psychosis Hill might deal with.

Val McDermid says: 'Who knows what Eliot really meant by that line? Robson's explanation is as good as any... For myself, I've always taken it to be a metaphor for the thrill of adrenaline surging through the bloodstream. But we'll never know for sure".

mmmmmm, Robson Green.

ita, I have known a couple of people who were told they "didn't screen well in comparison to our corporate culture/environment" after taking the tests. One of them, my sister's friend Ron, was apparently too outgoing for them; the fact that he'd just found out his wife was pregnant after three miscarriages might have had something to do with his giddiness that day. They also told him he was the best qualified in terms of his skill set (he was a technical editor with two decades experience), but they needed to "weigh all the factors." Translation: we give you one test, tell you we won't consider hiring without it, and if we can't box you in? Buh-bye.

So, yeah, I remain opposed, unless they want to test on four or five different days. Otherwise, it becomes just like single-person news report: a single POV. Which neither fair nor reliable, in my world.

I like Val's explanation of wire in the blood - adrenaline, the big whoosh.

When my DH joined the Foreign Service, all the incoming officers were given the MBTI. The woman who was adminstering it did horrible things like, "I've mapped you all onto this grid. See, most of you are right around here, but there's one person who's waaaayyyy out here by himself - in fact, the strongest introvert in the class. Jack, why don't you get up in front of the class and tell everyone how you feel about being such an introvert? Class, be nice to Jack. After all, he can't HELP being the way he is."

That, combined with her message that there are only 16 possible personality types (vice 12 in the zodiac I guess) really predisposed me against the MBTI. Later I got more familiar with it, learned what it's really about. It's a tool, and a good one, but like any tool, idiots can pick it up and destroy shit with it.

I love love love Eliot, even the ones like Prufrock that have been repeated to death. One of the things I love about his work is how you can take a phrase ("wire in the blood" or "I can hear the mermaids singing") and even not knowing its context, the very words cause shivers.