No one has to tiptoe around the Jen K/Allyson kerfuffle. Time has passed, I think I can discuss my personal responsibility on that without heat.

I'm not in every thread, but I can't think of a single personal attack being posted by anyone, new, old, popular or un, in recent memory.

I'd say I've seen two in the last two days.

No, I will not name the examples, since YPAMV, but since you asked, Jess, I'll answer the question.

We could easily have lost more people.

We probably did.

And were they dealt with in-thread? Did anyone ask for a warning to be issued?

Why are we discussing this in such vague terms if there are specific incidents that should be addressed?

[edited to clarify: I feel like there are two groups of people in this conversation. There are people who know what's being discussed, and people who don't. And if the people in the first group aren't willing to let the rest of us in on what's really going on, then perhaps it should be dealt with in backchannel. The vague accusations are helping no one.]

We probably did.

How is it possible that we lost more people than we did? What evidence do you have to support your probably?

Jess, yes the ones I'm thinking of were dealt with in thread.

And, I wasn't discussing them at all. As I thought I made clear, I was simply answering your question.

Yeah, there's been exchanges. But there was also the MinearEyes kid who took a spectacular swan dive into the guacamole, and I tried my damned hardest to hose that kid down.

Sometimes, it doesn't work. He didn't fit. Came from a board culture that's on the opposite end of our spectrum, and wasn't willing to budge. If he had stayed, he would have poured the salsa on his head and wiped his ass with the tortilla chips before lighting the house on fire.

Kindness wouldn't have changed that.

And, I wasn't discussing them at all. As I thought I made clear, I was simply answering your question.

I'm just trying to figure out what's driving this conversation. It feels like more than just our annual spring cleaning, for some reason.

It is my opinion:

If you think someone broke community standards by a post, whether or not that post was directed AT YOU, either call them on it in thread and follow the procedures we voted on and passed, OR LET IT GO.

And if the behaviour was months ago and procudure was not followed then, and you think it should have been, well, follow it next time.

If you want an apology from someone for something, ask for it, you may be disappointed and not get it.

I'm just trying to figure out what's driving this conversation. It feels like more than just our annual spring cleaning, for some reason.

I get that feeling, too. But no one is willing to offer specifics, and so all of the attempts to discuss for the past 2 days have, in some cases, been causing even more agita. But I, for one, have no idea what problem I'm *really* addressing here.

After 2 days and 500 posts of discussing Rafmun's original point (with, yes, digressions, because that's the Buffista way -- there is no talking stick), I still don't know what the final "solution" was supposed to be. We acknowledge that yes, some people feel steamrolled over and less likely to speak up. We acknowledge that yes, some people are too aggressive, though nobody really knows who those people are, because no one will name names. We acknowledge that, yes, it's important to make an effort to play nice and be thoughtful before hitting "Post."

That was all in Nutty's "proposal," no?

Beyond every registered member signing a pledge to follow those rules, I ask this quite honestly, what else could we have done? That's serious. Tell me, and I'll do it.