I'm getting all verklempt. Seriously. I'm under some serious stress in many areas of my life right now, and a little morale boost goes a long way. Thanks you guys.

Well, you're a mensch, and we know it.

Knut was the second Buffista I met in the flesh. Juliana was the first. Do you still see him Juliana? If so say Hi for me.

I'm also going to pull on the hipwaders and step into this discussion.

There has been a lot of talk about newbies, and I think that is somewhat the issue here, but really not at the heart of it. More to the point is the more abstract idea of social capital. I've been on b.org barely more than a year. I'd say in most ways that still makes me a newbie. However, I don't feel like one, and I don't think (and correct me if I'm wrong on this) I'm generally seen as one. What I do seem to have is some social capital. I've met so many of you, I stayed in your homes, I've had dinner with you, I've met you all over the country. Thing is, that can give me a bit more weight sometimes. I know I can annoy, I know that my overuse of innuendo can get old. I know that folks get annoyed by the fact that I flirt with anyone that moves and has a pulse. It's also part of who I am. I burn some of my social capital with all of those things. I also know that some folks enjoy those very things about me that so totally annoy others. It's the way the world works. My sick, wrong, and demented view and sense of humor isn't for everyone but it is for some folks.

What all this is leading to is that this place is very very diverse, it's acidic at times, we are snarky, we a smart, and yes, we can attack when we see fit. For me, that's what appeals, that's what drew me here, that's why I love this place and the people here. If it suddenly become nice and cuddly all the time and I was always worried about offending someone, then it wouldn't be nearly as fun.

I don't want a world that is always safe and that always goes my way. That's not my thing. I hate it when my government tries to legislate it, and I'd hate to see it here. Thing is, that kinda what this feels like. A movement saying that b.org isn't quite nice enough and we need to tweak it so that it is. Hell no! Keep the sharp corners, don't put child safety latches on the cabinets! Leave the exposed wiring, it's what makes this place what it is.

I'm going to finish this ramble with something that a few of us heard at the Wolfram and Heart Annual Revue. Many of the other fans were kinda afraid of the Buffistas. It was an interesting thing to hear, but accurate too. We do seem to expect folks to be well spoken, and have a certain edge. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but it seems to be true.

t /ramble

ehem...

I have NO time to post lately and have been feeling blinvisible laltely, so even in the context of this discussion, I am happy to be remembered.

And a big meara

I'm not sure there is anything official to do, but I think just discussing some things--if it doesn't devolve into name-calling--can be enough. People can examine their own behavior, a little give and take helps the poster undertsand their own position better, and maybe the discussion leads to some insight. It has happened here for me lots of times--sometimes in reference to music, sometimes, Buffy plot points, sometimes personal things.

What Robin (Scrappy) said

But making the people at one edge happy makes people in the middle moderately unhappy, and people at the other edge REALLY unhappy. Ideally, a decision made in the center only makes the edges moderately unhappy.

What Jesse said (but I always agree with Jesse in terms of board policy). I am for the greater good. On some issues, like spoilers, the needs of those on the edge met because most people don't have an opinion. Although I, too, felt like Elena was a bit bowled over in the Press posting thing, an edge group who didn't like the posts in press got their needs met. Again, because the majority didn't seem to care either way.

This is why I get so upset when I hear about people giving up bureacracy-- we have no way of knowing what people think unless they tell us. If you give up, decisions can be made that make you miserable. If you are reasonably sure that your needs will be met without voiceing your opinion, maybe you don't need to post, but I think everyone should make an effort to read. I don't always need to post because people have spoken for me, but I do read. and, as Hil said

If it becomes a huge debate, and I decide, "I don't want to be part of a huge debate," then the issue couldn't have been that important to me to begin with. If someone then said, "Well, 100 posts back, Hil posted this, and she backed off because she didn't want to be part of a huge debate, but we've still got to take her into account," I'd feel extremely insulted and condescended to. If I back off of something, it's because I don't think it's important enough to be arguing about it, or at least not important enough to me for me to put my name, time, effort, or social capital into defending it, and at that point, I certainly don't want anyone else to be claiming to represent me.

The Good Old Days. I miss them, too. Dana and I don't filk any more (I can hear you all breathing sighs of relief.) We don't see outbursts like the Spoiler Prayer. It's not as playful.

I want a betsy & dana filk! We did however have a lovely moment of playfulness in natter with all the rain songs! I really enjoyed that, and so I am not so sure that I am not just "longing for the good ole days"

I'm going to finish this ramble with something that a few of us heard at the Wolfram and Heart Annual Revue. Many of the other fans were kinda afraid of the Buffistas.

But I was more afraid of them than they were of meeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Seriously, if anyone had said that to me, my little knees, all a-tremble in terror at the sheer number of Bronzers I'd Heard Of, would have given out as part of my fit of hysterical giggles.

'Cept I was too skeerd of 'em to get close enough to have even that much interaction.

What Jesse said (but I always agree with Jesse in terms of board policy). I am for the greater good.

See, if there were a cabal, and Sophia and I were in charge of it, things would be All Better.

Just kidding.

I'm not unhappy we've all had this whole conversation, because I think it's worthwhile to bring up important issues every so often, the way any other topic comes up every so often, but it does annoy me to think that the whole thing was spurred by personal annoyances among a very few people.

I'm not unhappy we've all had this whole conversation, because I think it's worthwhile to bring up important issues every so often, the way any other topic comes up every so often, but it does annoy me to think that the whole thing was spurred by personal annoyances among a very few people.

You know, it is an absolute minimizing of the issues at hand to dismiss the points that a number of other long-term members have agreed with as simply 'personal annoynaces'.

msbelle, now that there's a bit of airspace, may I tag this?

we all eventually enter the realm of cycles of cranky and grumpy.

You know, it is an absolute minimizing of the issues at hand to dismiss the points that a number of other long-term members have agreed with as simply 'personal annoynaces'.

I in no way minimize the issues, as I thought was clear in my post. The discussion has been valuable, and important points have been made. I was specifically referring to the possible impetus, not the ensuing discussion.

I in no way minimize the issues, as I thought was clear in my post. The discussion has been valuable, and important points have been made. I was specifically referring to the possible impetus, not the ensuing discussion.

Fair enough. The impetus for the post on observations was not personal annoyances, but rather commentary on whether newbies get piled on more than others, and support for my position that this was not the case, but rather that a few people just choose to be pissy very often.

I stand by the original post, given that it was just my observations, be they correct or incorrect and whether or not they had value to anyone else. From my perspective, this discussion has simply reinforced my impression that the vast majority of the posters here are genuinely good, kind people but that a very select few are...well, not.

Over five hundred posts in two days. Wow. And I read every one of them; it's a fair capsule of my board experience over the past nine to twelve months.

I'm going to say this once, and I'm going to say it quietly. It isn't that I don't care passionately about it, it's that I have enough other stress in my life going on that I don't have the time or the energy to spend on endless back-and-forth here.

A lot of people have asked for an example of a long-time poster who has been driven away by the lack of compassion here, in comparison to times past. (Emphasis added so that Sean won't jump me for asserting that there's none now.)

Rafmun doesn't know me, very likely; we haven't crossed paths. But I'd like to raise my hand.

It's not that I love any of you any less. It's just that my usual brand of monkey-grooming gestures seemed increasingly ... out of place. Almost inappropriate.

Listen to Rafmun, and consider what he has to say. I don't agree with all of it, but I am extremely happy that he had the chutzpah to speak up. He is not alone in his observations. Robin and Betsy are also wise, but you knew that already.

Be good to each other, lovely Buffistas.