A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.
Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych
It's a fantastic way to undermine a posters' value and avoid dealing with uncomfortable issues, and a really horrible way to encourage insight and input from new sources.
No one is trying to avoid the issue. No one is ignoring what the new people have to say. We do, however, want to make sure that the new folks understand the culture before they criticize it. For example, there was a period (and still occasionally) when folks on the board addressed each other as "fucko". That could seem offensive and harsh to a newbie. Additionally, different boards have different standards of behavior. As for the lurkers, we don't know if they've been here two days or two years.
Both points effectively ignore the issues raised by said newbie and instead focus on the cred. It's a fantastic way to undermine a posters' value and avoid dealing with uncomfortable issues, and a really horrible way to encourage insight and input from new sources.
When a relatively new poster comes along and throws out broad generalizations lamenting the state of the board it's going to be jarring. Inevitable questions are going to arise. Who are you? How well do you know the board? And since the new poster was not posting (lurking notwithstanding) during the days of yore that he/she is pining for, specifics are going to be demanded from him/her. This contrasts with someone like DavidS or Jesse lamenting the exact same things. They were "there" "then" and have the posts to back them up. So they're generalities carry more weight.
Nobody's undermining the value of your posts. It's the general nature and inspecific allegations that are driving many of us crazy. If I said that this place was much better back in the days when we were WX or TT, I'd be an idiot. Because I was not there.
Basically a newbie's opinion is valued. But when he/she makes general assertions about the community he's new to - he better back them up.
Cold Irish breakfast --
and dude, really. Derailing conversations is the name of the game here. There is No. Such. Thing. as a linear discussion anywhere on this board. Don't take it like someone's out to get you, it's just what happens.
I may be alone in this, but I think it isn't a matter of action. It's not so much that we have to do what edge peeps want, but more that we have to acknowledge that edge opinions are valid even if we don't agree. If someone says "I feel this..." the most helpful response is sometyhing like "That's not what I feel, but it's an interesting position. Here's how I feel." Most Buffistas do that anyway, but arguments (not just here, in other threads as well) can result in people attacking the poster for even daring to have such an opinion or for posting it or for not posting it sooner or louder or whatever rather than just listening.
IOW-- the voting process here I think is great. And I know that some will always be unhappy with the results. It's the discussion which could use a bit more lovejuice.
I think Rafmun has made some excellent points, and I commend him for having the courage to make them and taking the heat.
As Hec noted, we established the voting procedure to make decision making more fair. At one time, I naively believed voting would solve the problem. I thought voting on every little thing would be the right thing to do. It's not. Voting causes other problems, such as increasing stress levels. Now, I don't have any solutions to offer, only that we made the effort to fix these problems, only to find a new set of problems.
For my part, I've accepted that the "small group" is going to make some of the decisions. For the most part, they make the right decisions. I'm still here and this is a good place. I don't agree with everything, and sometimes I get really pissed off. Still, I'm very thankful for all the people who make this place work, and make it a place worth participating in.
I'm sorry that some good people left. I miss Jen K. She was the first Buffista that I had any off-board contact with. After I disappeared for a long while, then delurked again, she remembered me and informed others that I wasn't new. Someone say hi to her from me, OK?
I also don't appreciate the cheekiness.
You say we need more compassion (actually, you say we need compassion, implying we have none at all currently), then when somebody tries to say, "um, yes we do have compassion," you accuse us of perfidy and deliberate obfuscation.
We're trying to talk about your issues. Telling us that any post that isn't in 100% agreement with you is ignoring the issue really raises my hackles, and it is currently very difficult for me to be polite on this subject for this very reason.
Yet again, Rafmun, your argument is based on information that you could only have based on the amount of time you've lurked. Whether or not you have rights is irrelevant. Whether or not your observations have the authority of knowledge of what you're talking about is critical.
Didn't do that.
Yes you did, through the structure of your assertion, as I plainly explained in the section of my post you chose to ignore.
Capital I to start a paragraph, Robin :)
Someone say hi to her from me, OK?
I'm supposed to see her this weekend; I'll try to remember.
