I'm really glad Robin and Consuela are getting in on this.

I'm really glad Robin and Consuela are getting in on this.

Me, too.

Thanks, Jesse. It seems to me from a very quick read that there are just a few questions here.

1. Is there a problem with people being shouted down?

2. Is the problem such that we should take action?

3. If the answers to 1 and 2 are "yes", what action can reasonably be taken?

4. Would the answer to 3 leave us in a better place than the current situation?

Because if we come up with a solution that ends up with 40% of the active posters leaving the board in disgust, I'm willing to stay with what we got. I can't read people's minds, and I'm willing to live with a certain amount of disgruntlement as the price for a vibrant, active community.

I'm not sure there is anything official to do, but I think just discussing some things--if it doesn't devolve into name-calling--can be enough. People can examine their own behavior, a little give and take helps the poster undertsand their own position better, and maybe the discussion leads to some insight. It has happened here for me lots of times--sometimes in reference to music, sometimes, Buffy plot points, sometimes personal things.

Rafmun, you still haven't proposed what it is we should do about our apparent shortcomings. So far all I see is pointing out a problem,

A number of people have asked what it is *I* propose to 'fix' the issue. Well, before I provide any sort of answer, I'd suggest that it's up to the *full* community to provide an answer, not me alone. People providing individual or small-group solutions IS the problem, according to me.

That being said, I would suggest that the first step would be acknowledging that there is a problem.

That obviously seems to be a major challenge in itself.

But until that happens, people will simply continue with the status quo, and good posters will be driven away, newbies discouraged, and avoidy-stressed-out types will avoid and be stressed while in general others accept the situation blindly, or claim 'change happens' and that nothing can be done.

Maybe this isn't an issue for some. It could be that a lot of people don't care. Perhaps it is even a positive thing for some, and the board is becoming more how some folks envision it.

Maybe long-termers/active posters/people responsible for deleting spoilers (edited from reading moderators) don't even realize it's happening -goodness knows they're busy enough.

But if change happens - and it certainly does - then just maybe collective will can influence that change just a bit....

And maybe a conscious effort to return to the congenieal roots of the board - the openness and tollerance I heard so much about for so long - might not be a bad idea. Is this an irrantional notion on the part of a rabble-rousing newbie? Your call. But the board I heard so many good things about featured posters considering other posters' points, extending true consideration to ideas - whatever the source, newbie or veteran.

Maybe I just think that it would be good to recognize when compromise is made from one quarter that sometime in the future harmony and balance might require compromise to be made from another quarter.

To those who get their way most of the time - back off on things that aren't critical to you. Let people with soft-voices have their way sometimes. When someone is doing something positive for the board, don't get all grumpy about a few extra posts in a thread. Be bigger than that.

Most importantly, keep an eye out for those few far-between posters who always seem to get their ways simply by persistence of posts, intractibility, refusal to engage on issues through either denial or misdirection. And for goodness sake - quiet/avoidy types - try your best to stand up for yourselves, as long as you can.

This is just one guy's opinion that that has been growing. So for what it's worth, take it or leave it.

Love you all, try the roast beef, I'll be here all week.

Rafmun, out.

The board is built on discussion, which means talky people will be more visible in the process than less-talky people. But we also have voting procedures in place so that big decisions don't get made by bullshit consensus and so the less-talky people don't get left out of the process entirely.

Concur.

Do we implement voting for small decisions too?

I say, "No!" Because (at least as I've seen it) every vote that goes through Bureaucracy causes a certain amount of friction and we lose some goodwill. Some votes are necessary for the long term health, but constant voting about niggling details would be instant heat-death.

Rather than that, I'd follow the Allyson school of thought and rather have the Stompies make the decisions. But I know that's not going to happen either.

Yeah, I don't like that idea so much. ita's got a lot of crazy notions.

I'll just note again, my hard-earned lesson in this community - Not everybody's going to be happy. I do try to keep Scrappy's point in mind. I do want to accomodate people, and sustain the community, and bring some shape to the way we talk to each other. But you can't over legislate this stuff.

Ultimately, you have to have an investment in the center of the community, not the edges. If your want is on the edge, that won't be met. If it's closer to the center of the community then it probably can be accomodated. But the center moves and that's why we talk about things.

1. Is there a problem with people being shouted down?

2. Is the problem such that we should take action?

Also, I'd really like it if the people who DO say yes to these questions would then offer up what they would like to see happen.

SInce I know it will be commented on, I just want to point out that the board does not have Moderators.

The center could stand to keep the wishes of the edges in mind. We're intelligent people and, historically, compassionate ones.

Maybe moderators don't even realize it's happening -goodness knows they're busy enough.

We don't HAVE moderators. We're self-modding. My feet, they stomp, but generally only spoilers or broken HTML.

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