The use of subhuman: I didn't like it. It set off an alarm and offended me.

Berating Allyson for her lack of regret: I don't like it. It sets off an alarm and offends me.

Discussing it circularly: (guess what) I don't like it. It sets off an alarm and tires me.

If you want Allyson to be officially warned or reprimanded or bitchslapped, can you just say it? Because then we can work through that instead of doing the dance of accusation, innuendo and defense.

Personally, I don't want a censure of Allyson. I think that bringing it up NOW is not really helpful.

Ooh, that last message sounds snippy. I don't mean to sound snippy, I'm just being overly precise. Sorry.

In general, I think these kinds of conversations Do Not Help.

I think the optimal solution would be for it not to have been brought up a month or whatever later, because it's over and done with.

I think picking at it is going to do more harm than good.

I just thought these bits of Katie's post summed up most of my feelings.

Zoe drives me crazy. Annoying, but I have a high tolerance. But for this kind picking at old scabs, NSM.

If you want Allyson to be officially warned or reprimanded or bitchslapped, can you just say it? Because then we can work through that instead of doing the dance of accusation, innuendo and defense.

Yes, this.

I am sensing that this is What Is Wanted, yet Not Discussed.

And, I would really prefer it if someone would speak up, because it seems, and I could be reading more into this, that people would rather I pretend to feel something I don't so that it doesn't come to that.

I'd rather be treated fairly.

I'd like Allyson officially warned. Not because I don't like Allyson. But because a) she violated CS, seemingly apologized for it, and now admits that her violation was intentional and remains unapologetic for that violation. I don't care if it was months ago, or yesterday, today she took an unapologetic stance for her previous violation.

and b) the Zoe characterizations - subhuman? - extremely offensive. Merits a warning.

Besides IIRC, Allyson has asked already at least three times for someone to request that she be warned. So I'm going to do it.

I also want to point out to bitterchick that people have been bringing up month old Zoeisms too, like the Icky Gay thing. So either it's fair game, or it's not. And I'm not a Zoe defender, she annoys the shit out of me too, but I still don't understand what the recent kerfuffle is about. Is there a specific thing she said that someone can link to? Because if it's just a matter of her ignoring emails to come into Bureaucracy to defend herself, I don't think anyone has or should have the obligation to do that. To some people this board is downright frightening.

Finally, I want to wrod Fayjay, Micole and PaulJ, among others, for a lot of recent stuff, but I'm too tired to find it.

I'd like Allyson officially warned

Okay. Warn me.

I'd like Allyson officially warned. Not because I don't like Allyson. But because a) she violated CS, seemingly apologized for it, and now admits that her violation was intentional and remains unapologetic for that violation. I don't care if it was months ago, or yesterday, today she took an unapologetic stance for her previous violation.

Wow. I think that is TOTAL bullshit. To ask for a warning about something that happened *months* ago, that she *apologized* for???

Bullshit.

It sounds to me like you want a warning given because she won't apologize for her *intent*, even though she apologized for her *actions.*

I'll say it one more time: BULLSHIT.

And I'm not a Zoe defender, she annoys the shit out of me too, but I still don't understand what the recent kerfuffle is about. Is there a specific thing she said that someone can link to?

Wait, Wolfram, is this a post saying that we can't bring up things that are in the past or we can? Cause I don't understand what your point is. My issue, as the person who brought it here, was that her posting causes continual and increasing turmoil in the community.

Because if it's just a matter of her ignoring emails to come into Bureaucracy to defend herself, I don't think anyone has or should have the obligation to do that.

Again. Not asking her to do that.

To some people this board is downright frightening.

Perhaps. But if we're so Big Damn Scary, then why post at all? Why elect to participate?

Little anecdote, Buffistas scared the crap out of me when I first joined. I was a very sporadic poster because it felt cliquey, in groupy and I thought I pissed ita off royally about spoilage. But I don't understand why it being downright frightening, especially to a newbie, places the onus on me to put up with posters who are trolling for attention.

Also, I disagree that you want Allyson to apologize for not feeling enough regret. We don't get to dictate how people feel.

I understand and am offended by her use of subhuman and wouldn't mind an apology for that. But I refuse to get behind warning her for not feeling the way you, Katie, Fay, Nutty want her to feel.

You know, I knew it was coming but somehow I'm still surprised by it. I'm completely disgusted by this entire situation.

This entire thing is absolfuckinglutely ridiculous. By all means, let's bend over backwards for a poster who has made NO meaningful contribution for this community except to cause drama and problems. We'll just let her walk up one side and down another. And then we can turn around and flog someone who has been a valued member of this community because she won't conform her thoughts on a single subject to fit others' beliefs on what's acceptable.

The word Orwellian came up the other night. I didn't think it fit then but I sure as hell think it fits right now.

Wolfram, if you can't see the difference between the two situations, then I don't know what to tell you.