Allyson - *smootch*

(If you babblefish that from Bronzer to Buffista speak it'll come back "WROD" :)

Communities aren't made in Bureaucracy.

One must work at being a member of a community. Simply registering shouldn't give one the rights to the same respects earned by others who have been contributing consistently, over time.

I never understood the pandering to lurkers thing (Be it here or the Bronze or any number of other boards I can name.)

I'm a poster, not a performance artist.

And if I open my mouth to voice an opinion, it's usually because I figure I've earned the right. The hard way- post by post by freakin' post.

Communities aren't made by lurkers.

By registering, this makes the person a citzen of the Phoenix.

With all due respect, Connie. I can't agree with that. Because communities aren't made by registrations either.

I barely consider myself a Buffista. I'm a Buffista with training wheels at best. And frankly, if that label doesn't have value, if it isn't earned, how do you expect people to respect it?

Edited to add: Unless you are differentiating between "citizen of the phoenix" and "Buffista". Which I would understand. But in regard to this conversation (all variations of it) those terms have been used interchangeably.

Whoo, Allyson rules. I know it feels like work to you to turn on that ultra-reasonable mode, so I appreciate it on that level too.

I can spot them in three posts or less.

I remember my first response to Zoe in Angel thread was partly motivated by, "Oh, she's going to have trouble fitting in... I ought to encourage her a little." Developing the radar, air defense system not acquiring targets.

Web communities can last for a decade or more, and decisions made now can sustain the board culture that I and others adore for years, or rip it apart in months.

It gives me a happy to think the Buffistas might last ten years. I bet we would want to change the name by then, though.

It seems you spend as much or more time talking about change than you do experiencing the board as it is.

aurelia called me "the ambidextrous Buffista" for being subscribed to as many right-hand threads as left-hand threads. Sometimes I feel unbalanced, when I save time by unsubscribing from Natter and UnAmericans before Bureaucracy. But I never feel like I need to amass more social capital elsewhere to put forth an argument here. In BBaBB, by contrast, there's a natural group of "moderators" who can actually build and code things and I sometimes feel like, "Who am I to be pushing for these 'Tim Alerts' to come to my instant messenger? I don't create anything around here." What I'm trying to say is that I'm fragile and always feel like I'm near the outside of the group, so I need things to be inclusive, even though I've been here a while.

I never understood the pandering to lurkers thing

Lurkers of the world, unite!

More blow-in than Buffista.

I used to think this meant you would just blow in and back out like the breeze, so it's nice to hear you've touched down and are on training wheels now.

It gives me a happy to think the Buffistas might last ten years. I bet we would want to change the name by then, though.

Death to the traitor!!!

*cough* Really? You think we would? That's interesting. I wonder what we'll be.

We could have morphed into a fic site, or added an adjective, like wonderfallicbuffistas.org, or had most of our membership replaced by monkey voters. We'll never be ashamed to be named after Buffy, but we might have almost forgotten the show. What percent turnover would we have after ten years? 70-90%?

Thank you Allyson. I think voting started to solve a specific problem of decisions being made and impletemented and then the people who were in the minority being very upset because they weren't there when it happened, and felt we never reached consensus. And that was upsetting and led to anger on both sides.

Voting was always, I think to be a clear-cut method of determineing that decisions weren't made when the people who wanted to talk about them were absent and that those people's voices were taken into account.

The time-ended was an added bonus.

Just somehow, voting did the thing that we didn't want it to-- it took on a procedural life of its own. Throughout the whole how to vote process I wanted to go behind a curtain and pull out a fully formed voting method for which we would vote yes or no. In retrospect, I think that would have been better, yet impossible here because a lot of people do want to have a voice.

WRT lurkers, I still considered myself a lurker for a long time after I posted, before I was a Buffista. Also, I know from helping with the donation thing that there are several dedicated, yet shy lurkers who have been with us since TT. They have also given quite a bit of money from time to time. So I feel weird excluding them-- it faux consensus mode #1 they had a chance to pipe up if they wanted. Now their pipe-up has to be a vote. With 100 people voting, I would guess (although someone could do stats) that the people who have voting are the active participants rather than the random people registered here.

Also, Ken et als-- I didn't write the lovely Buffista peice I posted, I just quoted askye, who wrote in back in WX bureaucracy, which I was reading in its' entirity. Which was scary.

Bureaucracy is our art. We make it with our words, every day. I would argue along with Sophia that lurkers do make that art too, via backchannel. (I have one friend in another fandom who became the best-informed, most-influential lurker ever, strictly over private emails.)

Being a collective is hard work: we have to balance out our individual opinions with the will -- or lack of it -- of everyone else. It can be useful to have ad-hoc advocacy, like the one person who says "Hey! We're going to this movie, at this time, and those who can't make it, sorry." But I don't want permanent leadership among my friends. I mean, they're my friends, and that way lies petty fiefdoms and a whole different kind of stupidity. Being a collective requires a lot of head-checking and butt-sniffing; sometimes giving in when you can see others feel strongly; being cooperative even with the members you don't know well or like very much -- a lot of internal reinforcement and external policing.

You know, I just sort of realized: I view Buffistas as a (very large) family of siblings, or a giant polyamorous marriage, rather than as some kind of town. We're not here because we live next door to each other, or we all care about the water rights or the septic system or the city services we're all sharing. We're here because we care about each other, because we carry meaning, collectively, for each other, and we could all be crammed into a van down by the river and still call it (a really cramped) home.

Maybe it's that viewpoint that makes me feel secure in the ways we deal with our administrivia? I don't know. But I do feel secure, and I'm readying my brainwashing equipment interested in hearing about the metaphor that other people use to describe this place.

Allyson is a treasure. That is all.

With 100 people voting, I would guess (although someone could do stats) that the people who have voting are the active participants rather than the random people registered here.

When I counted votes, I would guess there were 4 or 5 names I didn't know, though I could go back and check that.

By registering, this makes the person a citzen of the Phoenix.

Registering makes one registered. Participating makes one a citizen. Adding a positive contribution to our culture makes one a Buffista.

Participating is posting. Making a positive contribution is making friends, sparking conversation, and adding more happiness than you take away.