I was quite dismayed to realize Hitler had quite a nice speaking voice. All the footage I'd ever seen had been him ranting at the climax of the rallies. But it's not something you can easily say to people.

"Hitler built nice roads" - is my go to "shut up defending that" or "me criticizing this thing does not mean it has no redeeming qualities, stop being an absolutist".

"I want to be taller" is my go to "you can't always get what you want".

Both generally either annoy people into leaving me alone or shut them up.

I've completely disengaged. Between the rampant racism and defense of a flag they never fought for in southcentral PA--WHICH WAS PART OF THE UNION if you didn't pick up on that earlier--and the victim-shaming in a local DV case which was supposed to be a double murder-suicide, but the estranged wife has survived so far, I've lost my faith in humanity. The batshit crazy husband and a male friend didn't. If I try and engage, I am called a libtard, Obama-lover, a kid (when I pointed out that was a fantastic compliment since I'm 41, she responded that I have a childlike mind instead). It raises my blood pressure, stresses me out, and makes me angry. I have to gird my loins to do battle. Right now, I'm battle-weary.

a flag they never fought for in southcentral PA

A lot of people near the Mason-Dixon Line have/had cloudy allegiances. Over in the southwestern corner, where I'm from, the big thing was to tell the Union recruiters that they'd come too far south and were in Virginia, then tell the Southern recruiters that they were in Pennsylvania. Hard to track a border through the Appalachian woods.

I'm fairly relieved my MIL is no longer here, she would actually argue The War Between the States. She was dismayed that her son married a northerner. She was from the deep-Dixie state of West Virginia and actually grew up about 20 miles from where I was born (in abovestated Pennsylvania), so I don't know how she justified her proud Southern heritage.

A lot of people near the Mason-Dixon Line have/had cloudy allegiances.

I get that, but perhaps I wasn't clear. I am talking about the discussion regarding the flag today. We are now 150 years beyond the Civil War. No one currently talking about this fought in that war. People here like to pretend they are Southern "rednecks" because it gives them an excuse to be misogynistic, racist assholes and it's cool. In the meantime, they ignore their actual heritage.

I'm so tired of seeing the meme of "If you're alright with this, then you need to be alright with *this*." The first "this" is a picture of someone stomping/burning the American flag, and the second "this" is a picture of the Confederate flag. Free speech doesn't apply unless the government is a party, and even if it did, you're still responsible for the consequences of your speech/actions/choice. Let's not even get into the fact that one of those flags is on its face treasonous.

I can argue firmly against the Confederate battle flag, since it was revived from obscurity by the KKK, the Dixiecrats and others opposed to desegregation. I can't get behind Soviet-style deletions of Confederate figures. You can't wipe out history, and if you start eliminating images of supporters of slavery, most of the founding fathers would disappear. I think we need to do a better job of coming to terms with the U.S.'s original sin.

People here like to pretend they are Southern "rednecks" because it gives them an excuse to be misogynistic, racist assholes and it's cool.

Ding ding ding. This is why you will see the flag in random totally non-southern places like northern Ontario.

I imagine the jackass in my downtown who sells the pictures of national Democratic politicians with crosshairs on them has put Confederate flags on sale.

I think we need to do a better job of coming to terms with the U.S.'s original sin.

Agreed, all of them (sins that is). Because slavery was just one of them. And because such sins still occur worldwide, and even if we aren't necessarily the perpetrators we are so often the benefactors of evil. And it just needs to be faced.

Yeah, I can't even engage in this discussion here. Not meant to be quelling, just an aside as I bring up an entirely unrelated topic.

Namely: Powerpoint. Oh how I have not missed you being in my life.