Mal: Does she understand that? River: She understands. She doesn't comprehend.

'Objects In Space'


Natter 72: We Were Unprepared for This  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


§ ita § - Nov 23, 2013 12:48:10 pm PST #12757 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I do wish people would stop with the "injecting yourself with poison" line. Don't give even the remotest bits of support to people who think no amount of biological agent can be injected non-harmfully (or even beneficially), and too many people think botox has no point whatsoever.

Also there need to be more "typically" aging women saying "Look at me! I'm 54 and I have no aging anxiety!" Even ones that started out drop dead gorgeous. Coming from her it's kinda empty. Michael Jordan can also reach the food on the top shelf, what does that do for Linda Hunt?

That being said, she's cool.


Matt the Bruins fan - Nov 23, 2013 12:52:58 pm PST #12758 of 30000
You have to remember that being a 5-time Olympic medalist means Hilary Knight has been playing hockey at an elite level at least 16 years. It's impossible for her to be a teenage girl less than 16 years old, thus the President's complete lack of interest.

Last time I checked, botulism toxin was still a toxin. In controlled amounts under medical supervision it can have positive uses (though I don't think paralyzed facial muscles and frozen expressions are a positive use for actresses), just like chemotherapy chemicals, but that doesn't make it not poison.


Burrell - Nov 23, 2013 1:14:18 pm PST #12759 of 30000
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

I'm with ita on the poison line. Lots of medications are toxic, but they have a value, and botox has medical as well as cosmetic uses. Besides, I don't buy the argument that there's some ethical transgression with getting cosmetic treatments. I don't think it makes someone a better person. (I personally find the costs and the hassle are enough of a reason to not bother, and face lifts seems super invasive surgery, so not signing on to anything like that.)

My love of Emma has more to do with her smile and her humor and, hell, her whole 'ness.

I do think I'd be more conflicted about it if I were an actress, but I think there's a risk either way since your face is such an important instrument. I've always suspected that a lot of actors botox up for the award season and then let it wear off so they can play a bigger range of roles. Susan Sarandon always looks 10 years older in her movies, and uses that to her advantage. But who knows? Make-up artists and esp wig people can do magic with a bit of tape, even if like Cinderella the transformation only lasts the night.


Consuela - Nov 23, 2013 1:50:45 pm PST #12760 of 30000
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

I think it's pretty tricky, the whole question of botox and other work. The valorization of youth in this culture reinforces the need to look youthful, and I don't want to castigate anyone who thinks that they need to continue to look young for personal or professional reasons. But on the other hand, catering to that desire for youth supports the sidelining of older (and older-appearing) women.

There's really no way to win. It's wickedly unfair.

And now I'm off to climb, woot.


Jesse - Nov 23, 2013 2:21:52 pm PST #12761 of 30000
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Apparently I have made my last popcorn in this apartment: I packed the olive oil earlier, and just ran out of canola oil.


-t - Nov 23, 2013 2:29:26 pm PST #12762 of 30000
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Packing certainly is full of little milestones like that.

And now I want popcorn. Hm.


§ ita § - Nov 23, 2013 2:43:20 pm PST #12763 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

botulism toxin was still a toxin.

If she was going around saying "Smallpox is a disease, I don't want it injected into me." would she get the same reception?

In controlled amounts under medical supervision

Which is exactly how Emma Thompson would get it

it can have positive uses

And she has decided that none of them are useful enough to her for to get it. Which is perfectly fine! But going around saying "Because it's a poison" is more like anti-vaxxer medicine than anything else to me. Start at the the other end. Say it's way more extreme than you would have done to yourself for results you don't value.

I don't think paralyzed facial muscles and frozen expressions are a positive use for actresses

Good botox is like a good boob job. You don't notice them. The difference between the two I had, both of which had to affect my forehead, were night and day, and I'd challenge many people who know me to notice the second job.

No medical procedure comes without risk. It's not a choice *I* particularly respect. But to trash talk it because it's poison and because bad Botox adminstration exists--that a weak-assed argument, but irritatingly to me, a very popular one.

And you know what effect that has? Pushes the positive uses of botox further into the shadows. I've read "botox treatment serves no good purpose" articles on IO9 masquerading as science (I haven't seen their scathing expose of hair plugs, but I am sure it's coming right up) where under pressure they added half a sentence mentioning that "some positive uses exist" And adds one more bit of credence to the people who think injecting disease into you is badbadkillyourkidsbad.

Yup, that served society, thanks media.


Jesse - Nov 23, 2013 2:55:03 pm PST #12764 of 30000
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

If I were to get my 16-year-old cousin a swiss army knife for Christmas, is it weird or just practical to get one with a corkscrew?


Strix - Nov 23, 2013 3:07:53 pm PST #12765 of 30000
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

Practical. Hopefully she'll have it for years, and anyway, if she's underage drinking wine with corks, better that than a case of shitty beer.


dcp - Nov 23, 2013 3:09:57 pm PST #12766 of 30000
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

Get the one with the Philip's screwdriver instead.