Anya, the Shopkeepers of America called. They wanted me to tell you that 'please go' just got replaced with 'have a nice day.'

Xander ,'Selfless'


Natter 71: Someone is wrong on the Internet  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Sheryl - Nov 23, 2012 9:32:32 am PST #1875 of 30001
Fandom means never having to say "But where would I wear that?"

Since my family didn't arrive here until the late 19th/early 20th century(and didn't tend to do interfaith marriage), no Indian princesses in my family tree.


Pix - Nov 23, 2012 9:53:20 am PST #1876 of 30001
We're all getting played with, babe. -Weird Barbie

There are stories of Native American ancestry in my family tree, but I've never done the research or the DNA testing to validate. Both sides of my family have roots in 1600s New England, though, so it's plausible.


§ ita § - Nov 23, 2012 10:02:42 am PST #1877 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Another thing that confuses--20 years ago in Canada it was mandatory pretty much (at the idealistic university level) to say First Nations over and above any other term for the more indigenous people. Not only do I not know if there's a similarly not-linked-to-America term for the US, I don't even know if it's still the right term to use in Canada.

I'm having a parallel conversation with my sister about the Cherokee tribe's resistance to accepting black people with documented Cherokee heritage. Similar "why can't we fucked over all get along?" sentiments there.


msbelle - Nov 23, 2012 10:12:13 am PST #1878 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

Mac and I are breaking for lunch. We have sold 2 bags of books, bought part of a gift, found 2 shirts on sale at Target while looking for holiday pjs, got 3 stocking stuffers, and looked 2 places for iTouch cases.

After lunch is Petco and old navy, then mall kiosks for the case. Probable stops at jcp also.


Pix - Nov 23, 2012 10:12:51 am PST #1879 of 30001
We're all getting played with, babe. -Weird Barbie

The preference I hear most often in research and personal experience is to use the actual nation (ie Pequot)—the broader terminology of American Indian vs. Native American seems to be based more on one's personal preference. I've not heard First Nations used often in my circles.


JZ - Nov 23, 2012 10:15:21 am PST #1880 of 30001
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

I'm in the can't-claim-a-drop corner with Sheryl -- my mom's side of the family got here earlier, but also did not do interfaith marriages until my grandfather met my grandmother (whose family also didn't do interfaith until she met him).

It's a weird and slippery thing -- my brothers and I are all dripping in white privilege, but go just three generations back, anywhere on the family tree, and not one of our ancestors would have been considered white by the USian cultural standards of their time (maybe, possibly, the Swiss goatherder girl, but I think she'd still be suspect on account of Papistry and poverty). But pop them in a time machine to now, and they'd all be considered so obviously white that it would look slightly insane to even suggest anything else.


§ ita § - Nov 23, 2012 10:17:40 am PST #1881 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I've not heard First Nations used often in my circles.

I doubt it would be, unless you were talking about Canada, though. There is an official term intended to simplify things like laws, etc, that would be ill-served by listing 500+ individual tribes--First Nation + Metis + Inuit takes up a lot less space.

And sometimes that's what you mean. There is a semantic difference between Ojibwe and First Nation, and sometimes you are talking about the latter.

If I head to BBAB on my way home, I'll die screaming before reaching a cash register, won't I?

Maybe I'll just do groceries and call that enough.


erin_obscure - Nov 23, 2012 10:18:23 am PST #1882 of 30001
Occasionally I’m callous and strange

Family lore is that my great-grandfather Finnacom was a land prospector in what is now West Virgina. After one of his trips(around 1883) he came back with an "Indian Princess" as the new housekeeper for him and his barren wife. Shortly thereafter she became pregnant, he divorced the wife and married the "Indian Princess"/maid. After 6 kids she took off with some other guy, leaving the 2 youngest kids (including my grandmother who was 2) in an orphanage. Seven years later their dad got them out. My grandmother's life was a total soap opera and she didn't like talking about her mom or early life, but the story is likely true (minus the "Princess" part.) The records of her are odd. On a 1910 census (the year after my grandmother was born and 1 year before the lady in question took off) her name was listed as Eugenia Scott Finnacom, age 35. But there's no birth certificate for her, no death certificate, and no record at all after she dissappeared. Plus, no one in the family knew her name...Eugenia is just per that 1910 census. All the relatives never referred to her by name and said they never talked to her because she didn't speak English.


Beverly - Nov 23, 2012 10:23:30 am PST #1883 of 30001
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

One of the nicest things about being adopted as an infant with a sealed history is that I get to imagine what my genealogic background might be. I can be fierce, reckless Celt, or passionate Italian (H says my eyes are in all the Italian paintings of a certain era), lost Russian, German, French, whatever. I do know one thing though, if I claimed Native American lineage, it would be through my father's fathers. Everyone has Cherokee blood on their grandmother's side, like there were no Indian men. What's that about?

ETA: Isn't First Nations a strictly Canadian term? Although I prefer it to Native American, since the first nations on this continent were not actually native to it.


erin_obscure - Nov 23, 2012 10:25:13 am PST #1884 of 30001
Occasionally I’m callous and strange

Girls were more likely to be abducted and/or raped than boys....

eta: and yes, First Nations is a Canadian term not used in the US