It's all about choices, Faith. The ones we make, and the ones we don't. Oh, and the consequences. Those are always fun.

Angelus ,'Smile Time'


Natter 71: Someone is wrong on the Internet  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Consuela - Nov 22, 2012 9:53:26 am PST #1823 of 30001
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

Oh, and we listened to "Alice's Restaurant" on vinyl, no less.

Photographic evidence of the pies: [link]


meara - Nov 22, 2012 10:07:30 am PST #1824 of 30001

Trace Adkins just made me cry with a song about fishing with his daughter. It's going to be a long day.

Aww. I like the idea of that song, even if I don't really like the song so much.

I am making chex mix (it has 15 minutes left) and then will put the pie in. We are watching West Wing (after the roommate and i tried for many minutes to figure out if we had something to connect our computers to the TV, and determined we didn't, and were going to try purchasing on Amazon through the TiVO, when I remembered that she OWNS all the seasons of the West Wing. Good grief)


§ ita § - Nov 22, 2012 11:10:13 am PST #1825 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Gnargh. Why am I going through my finances today of all days? I found more fraudulent charges to my credit card, a $100 phone call made calling support for work during the wee hours of the morning because the vendors 1-800 number wasn't working and I called the UK instead.

Which meant I logged into work email, and then there was stuff that needed to be answered, and the other stuff I should get a start on so it can be done before the west coast work day starts tomorrow, and ... I'm fucking putting this down on my timesheet, if they need all the details.

Ugh, and I forgot to account for an ER visit before going home....damn, this is all fucked up.


§ ita § - Nov 22, 2012 12:28:20 pm PST #1826 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

So, instead of staring disconsolately at my TiVo that keeps rebooting itself and then freezing (keeps me on my toes), I decided to flip through some of my open browser windows that have been cluttering the desktop forever.

And it's depressing stuff. I swear it has nothing to do with what day it is, but I found myself randomly reading the text of treaties between the US government and various Native nations, and I got as far as:

The Commissioners Plenipotentiary of all the Choctaw nation [...] shall also restore all the negroes, and all other property taken during the late war, from the citizens, to such person

and I realise I know nothing about the relationship of the Choctaw with slaves of this period. So, you know, Google.

Brought to Indian Territory in the 1830's Black Choctaws arrived with the Choctaw Indians as slaves. Prior to removal the Choctaws had been exposed to Africans in their native homeland of Mississippi. Slaves were a part of the European culture to which the Choctaws would later adapt. Slavery would be one of the institutions the nation would adopt. Chief Moshulatubbee had slaves as did many of the Europeans who married into the nation, with the Folsoms and LeFlores among the larger slave owners.

The only family of distinct free status in the Choctaw Nation at the time of removal was the Beams family, children of Nellie Beams. Though their status was later challenged by their half Choctaw siblings who sought to sell them for profit, their recognized status as free Choctaw citizens was noted by their fellow citizens. A full account of the saga of this family is found in the Journal of Negro History 1976. Slavery remained in the Choctaw Nation, till 1866, when the Treaty of 1866 signed in Ft. Smith, Arkansas requiring that The Choctaws release their Africans from bondage.

I did not know that Native Americans kept black slaves. Was this common?


sumi - Nov 22, 2012 12:47:13 pm PST #1827 of 30001
Art Crawl!!!

I didn't know that either.


CaBil - Nov 22, 2012 1:14:13 pm PST #1828 of 30001
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.

Not very, mostly by the more 'westernized' tribes that were in the south. It was encouraged at times by the local and federal government, because if the Native Americans were keeping slaves for plantation use, well that means that they are becoming just like the Europeans. Part of the reason it was not very widespread was that slaves were valuable, and if the Native Americans had stuff that was valuable, well, it tended to disappear into the nearest colonists' pocket. Slavery was only ever profitable in narrow circumstances, which required plantation agriculture. Land that was suited for that, well, that also tended to end up in European hands, and once the Native Americans were kicked off that sort of land for far less desirable lands, it became unprofitable. Despite that, several tribes did have slaves, the southern Cherokee seem to the worst offenders.

Wikipedia has an entry that leads to more info here.


Typo Boy - Nov 22, 2012 2:21:14 pm PST #1829 of 30001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

A Breaking Bad thanksgiving (video) for those who are interested in such thing. [link]


§ ita § - Nov 22, 2012 2:58:10 pm PST #1830 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

If you'd like to get some simple pleasure, try this--move your finger from side to side as if it's following you.

My TiVo is acting up, so I'm randomly trying shows on my Instant Queue since it reboots when I try and watch the next Revenge episode. So...suddenly I'm watching Dollhouse, and it occurs to me: HOW THE FUCK DID I MAKE IT PAST THE FIRST DOLL ENGAGEMENT?

For some reason that skeeves me way more than it did the first time. However then there was Enver, and that reminded me there are good bits. But then Boyd reminds me there are asspull and sad bits, and now I'm wondering if they cast Tahmoh to make Eliza look nuanced.


Jesse - Nov 22, 2012 3:51:30 pm PST #1831 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Home again, home again, jiggity jig. I got to play with Barbies! Also eat all of everything. There was a surprise guest -- my aunt's nephew (my mother's brother's wife's brother's son) wasn't supposed to be home from Australia yet, but was! The rest of his family was very excited. I only ever see him at Thanksgiving anyway, so was less excited, but that was cool.


le nubian - Nov 22, 2012 4:54:31 pm PST #1832 of 30001
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

I did not know that Native Americans kept black slaves. Was this common?

When I first learned about this as a kid, I was really upset about it for days. I could not understand how one oppressed group owned another. Gotta love early education of the evilness of humans. Stays with you.