I am in an argument with college-aged boys (that I know) on a log post of a colleged aged girl (that I know) about men talking to random women on the street. And they are such nice, polite young men, and they are writing paragraphs long defenses of men's rights to talk to women on the street and "not all men are like that" and "you need to be nicer or men and women won't get along" and "you are contributing to the women's fear of men by posting this" and "sorry, I won't ask you for directions, because you will kick me n the balls".

And why I tried to explain that it wasn't just about their "right" to talk to a pretty girl but a systemic, unplanned, unnoticeable to them way that men take up space and women can't, I have no idea...

OMG, shrift. That's what it was.

"you need to be nicer or men and women won't get along"

You need to be sympathetic about how much women are harassed by strange men or we won't get along."

Alternately, "You are not entitled to women's attention."

Actually, what I'd say:

You've spent a great deal of time and energy here admonishing someone whose experience is that strange men say and do awful things at a fairly regular clip in her life that she should be more open to strange men because a lot of you aren't like that at all.

This is the experience of most women. Instead of being upset at women for being afraid of strange men (given that strange men have given them great cause to be afraid), perhaps you should be upset at the men who verbally and physically assault strange women on the street. That is afterall the root cause of the problem.

I think it'd go far in proving what a nice guy you are, if instead of telling women that they're silly for being upset about a daily stream of verbal abuse from strangers, you decided to call the strangers out for being misogynist bullies. This would require you to actually care about what is happening to women, and be brave enough to stand up to it. I mean, women have to stand up to it on a day-to-day. Give it a whirl the next time one of your friends cat calls or makes a pass at a woman sitting on a bus, just trying to read a book and avoiding eye contact. Try this out, in the mirror: "Leave her alone."

Keep doing that. Practice. Then hit the street and do it for reals. You might feel a bit threatened, the way we do when we say, "Leave me alone" and the dude gets up even closer and says, "WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, BITCH?"

Be prepared for that strange man to say, "WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, BITCH?" It's a little scary, but we deal with it every day, and you'll learn to deal with it, too.

Eventually, if enough of you and that majority of "nice guys" you keep telling me about do this, instead of ignoring women asking for it to stop, it will become stigmatized and women will be less afraid of you all who just need directions because you left your GPS-enabled device at home. And won't that be nice?

Cool? Cool. Now go have a seat on a bench in a park, keep your eyes and ears open, and instead of spending all this time and energy telling someone that their complaints are silly and unfounded, witness them for yourself, stand the fuck up, and say, "Leave her alone."

I wish I were Allyson, because that response is so succinct and good!

I did point out that I have actually had "I am going to kill you fat bitch!" shouted at me on the bus when a man tried to converse with me and I said "I am sorry, I prefer to read my book"

I give you permission to plagiarize.

Seriously, I hear this ALL THE TIME. And it sucks when you're being told that your own experiences are some sort of silly fantasy in your head. Next thing they'll tell me that I don't really menstruate, and that whole aisle in the pharmacy is just that one aisle out of dozens of aisles that don't have maxi pads, and therefore my having to deal with my period is offensive to the snack aisle.

Allyson, you are so kick ass. BTW, I've been listening to Beastie Boys in my car the last few days, inspired by you.

And it sucks when you're being told that your own experiences are some sort of silly fantasy in your head.

Silly Allyson, just because you've had experiences that were frightening doesn't give you the right to feel frightened.

The girl is also holding her own. I also want to make them think because I am old, fat, and ugly, and I still have to make accomodations to ride public transportation without unwanted and threatening conversations. It is so outside their perception.

It really takes so little effort to respect a stranger's right not to converse with you. And I figure when it's a woman by herself not responding to a greeting at the park or wherever (I customarily say hi to everyone I pass), she's likely to be doing it out of prudence rather than distaste for my presence specifically.