I feel pretty strongly that men can definitely be feminists. I know there are some who would disagree, but I've never felt that mine is a minority view.
Excuse me? Who gave you permission to exist?
Cordelia ,'Beneath You'
Natter 69: Practically names itself.
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
Kate P. - Mar 22, 2012 9:14:25 am PDT #27685 of 30001
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love
§ ita § - Mar 22, 2012 9:27:05 am PDT #27686 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
but that's an uncommon definition, and not what most people would understand you to be saying
But it's specifically what I'm talking about right now--I asked about the intersection of the people who place such restrictions on the definition and the people who deride that statement. I didn't pull it out with no context.
§ ita § - Mar 22, 2012 9:30:50 am PDT #27687 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Luther to be made a movie? [link]
Jesse - Mar 22, 2012 9:52:20 am PDT #27688 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.
But it's specifically what I'm talking about right now--I asked about the intersection of the people who place such restrictions on the definition and the people who deride that statement. I didn't pull it out with no context.
I read meara's "it seems to frame feminism in a bad light" as based on common understanding of the term and common use of the phrase. That's what I was responding to.
meara - Mar 22, 2012 9:54:34 am PDT #27689 of 30001
I asked about the intersection of the people who place such restrictions on the definition and the people who deride that statement
Right. And in that case, if you say "Men cannot be feminists because they are not women", the appropriate thing to do/say as a (helpful/ally/supportive) man would be "I am not a woman, but I support feminism" (or vice versa, "I support feminism even though I'm a man" or whatever), NOT "I'm not a feminist"--is that because you don't like feminism or because you don't feel you're allowed to call yourself one?
Strix - Mar 22, 2012 9:59:32 am PDT #27690 of 30001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger
FWIW, I think the "men can't be feminists" POV is eyerolly BS.
Feminism is the belief that women are equal to men and should have equal rights. Being a feminist doesn't require any particular body part other than a brain.
§ ita § - Mar 22, 2012 9:59:47 am PDT #27691 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I read meara's "it seems to frame feminism in a bad light" as based on common understanding of the term
Ah, okay. Well, then it's meara who's misunderstanding me, because I'm referring about the specific definition here that I mentioned earlier.
the appropriate thing to do/say as a (helpful/ally/supportive) man would be "I am not a woman, but I support feminism"
But I'm not a man. I'm a woman who doesn't want to ally herself with a movement that's defined itself to explicitly exclude men.
shrift - Mar 22, 2012 10:00:48 am PDT #27692 of 30001
"You can't put a price on the joy of not giving a shit." -Zenkitty
I'm not sure I'm going to make it through this week without this project making me cry tears of frustration.
Jesse - Mar 22, 2012 10:01:43 am PDT #27693 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.
I don't think the movement has every defined itself in that way. I'm sure there are women who are part of the movement who do, but I can't imagine there are many of them.
meara - Mar 22, 2012 10:01:48 am PDT #27694 of 30001
Then you could say "I support a feminist movement that includes and welcomes men". I don't think the definition you're referring to is super common, and is certainly not one that most people would associate with the phrase "I'm not a feminist, but..." which is very common from women, but mostly in a "I don't like those strident activists that seem to be all about lesbians and abortion" kind of way.