Hey, if it means I don't have to read any more, woo and, might I add, a big hoo.

Xander ,'Sleeper'


Natter 69: Practically names itself.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


DavidS - Oct 15, 2011 7:14:07 am PDT #1739 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Here's one way to break it down:

Your relation to your body: Cis or trans or some other variation.

Your relation to your culture: How you want to present your gender as masculine or feminine or androgynous or whatever.

Your sexual interest in other people: het, homosexual, bi, asexual, other.


§ ita § - Oct 15, 2011 7:16:43 am PDT #1740 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'm officially not thinking about kathoey again until I resume marking papers. Which my sister thinks I'm doing right now.

I am as one with Steph on the feeling female thing. I assume what I feel is female because I am female, but how would I know if I were wrong? What would not having breasts possibly fix? I don't get what gender feels like, or how it can be tied up in the physical sexual markers I exhibit.

It's all just what I am.

Unlike Hil, I have never wanted to be the opposite gender, because being this one makes it far more societally acceptable to display a wide range of behaviours. Being male would make wearing a skirt hard, but being female and a computer programmer or comic collector is increasingly no biggie.


Steph L. - Oct 15, 2011 7:21:00 am PDT #1741 of 30001
I look more rad than Lutheranism

It's probably useful to make a distinction about how people feel about the plumbing they were born with, separate from how they want to present it based on the complex web of socially constructed gender roles.

Yes, trans-ness does obviously encompass one's genitals. That said, a lot of FtM transsexuals don't get bottom surgery, ever, because it's really not that effective. One of our best friends is a FtM dude (who I was shocked to find out is trans*, because in every outward physical marker, he's all male -- there's no androgyny that sometimes happens that causes people to whisper about "Is he really a he?") who is on hormone therapy and had top surgery, but has no intention to build a penis, because it ain't that effective. MtF bottom surgery is apparently a lot more effective.

Anyway, I didn't mean to gloss over the issue of one's genitals in discussing trans-ness. It's part and parcel of being trans*, definitely.

But I don't think people are trans* JUST because they have the wrong plumbing. The complex web of socially constructed gender roles has a huge part to play, too.

And I really have to mention here that I feel like a jackass even talking about this. I'm not trans*, I have no idea what it's like to feel like I'm in the wrong body, and just because I have close friends who are trans* doesn't really mean I have any authority to talk about it.


Hil R. - Oct 15, 2011 7:24:05 am PDT #1742 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Unlike Hil, I have never wanted to be the opposite gender, because being this one makes it far more societally acceptable to display a wide range of behaviours. Being male would make wearing a skirt hard, but being female and a computer programmer or comic collector is increasingly no biggie.

When I was in high school, I saw the geeky boys playing Magic: the Gathering, and I thought it looked like fun and wanted to learn how to play, but none of them would teach me, because it was a boy thing. Nowadays, I'd just get on the internet and learn myself and find people to play with, but then, I could just scowl.


Stephanie - Oct 15, 2011 7:26:12 am PDT #1743 of 30001
Trust my rage

Why trans* and not just trans?


DavidS - Oct 15, 2011 7:29:13 am PDT #1744 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

And I really have to mention here that I feel like a jackass even talking about this.

I don't know why. You've got a crossdressing boyfriend and you move in circles where there's a lot of variety on that spectrum. Of course it's something you'd think about.


Steph L. - Oct 15, 2011 7:31:51 am PDT #1745 of 30001
I look more rad than Lutheranism

Why trans* and not just trans?

Force of habit from elsewhere on the Interpipe. The asterisk is because "trans-" can be the prefix for transgender (no surgery/hormone therapy) or for transsexual (has undergone/is in the process of undergoing surgery and/or hormone therapy).

So the asterisk is an easier way than typing out "transgender/transsexual" every time. It's nerdy and pedantic, but it's also generally the way the trans* community with which I'm familiar uses it. So it's force of habit now.


JenP - Oct 15, 2011 7:33:38 am PDT #1746 of 30001

Oh, well, I'm talking about it (transgender, specifically) because it's interesting to me, but I get that it can be a horribly fraught, painful, psychologically painful thing to deal with. In fact, probably "is" more than "can be" for some portion of that person's life, at least.

I promise not to quote you as expert anywhere. Unless I'm arguing on the internet with someone who is clearly wrong, and I shall use you as a cite and accuse him/her/neither of being Hitler. As one does. Or unless it's about drugs and drug interaction and what's safe to take with what, because I totally do that all the time.


JenP - Oct 15, 2011 7:33:39 am PDT #1747 of 30001

Steph L. - Oct 15, 2011 7:34:46 am PDT #1748 of 30001
I look more rad than Lutheranism

And I really have to mention here that I feel like a jackass even talking about this.

I don't know why. You've got a crossdressing boyfriend and you move in circles where there's a lot of variety on that spectrum. Of course it's something you'd think about.

I think about it, and I live with it, but what I feel like is a white ally talking about what it's like to be black. Or a straight ally talking about what it's like to be gay. Or a dude mansplaining what it's like to be a woman.

I hope that makes sense. I have experience with it, and knowledge about it, but that still doesn't make me any kind of authority. I can only talk about what I know, but I'm always really, really aware that I'm just a cisgender chick passing on information that I hope to god I have correct.