Why is Mary in the Old Testament?

I mean - I agree with Hil - how is Mary relevant to a discussion of Judaism?

how is Mary relevant to a discussion of Judaism?

fair question.

At least in all the Bible teaching I've heard, God ASKED, and she said yes!

I don't recall that part. Maybe it's there, I just remember the Annunciation (not called the Asking, after all), not Mary's response.

G-d raped Mary

Ew. I never saw it THAT way. It was a gift. An inconvenient, awkward gift that almost got her forcibly divorced, but still.

I was arguing that the entire thing was irrelevant to a discussion of Judaism.

It's a little disheartening that that had to be pointed out.

An inconvenient, awkward gift that almost got her forcibly divorced

They weren't married yet. (I only know because we looked it up a couple of weeks before, when Tim referred to Mary as an unwed mother, and I said no, they were married, Joseph just wasn't the baby daddy. Then I said, "Do we even HAVE a Bible?" [Both of us used to belong to (different) freak-ass churches, so we don't have any religious stuff around (except what his Dad gives us).] Lo and behold, we do have a Bible, so we looked it up, and Mary and Joseph were not yet wed when she became pregnant. I think they still weren't wed when she gave birth, but I'm not 100% on that.)

Religion weird.

I'm mostly disturbed by the fact that we've lived together for 4 years and I didn't know if we had a Bible. I mean, I *know* the books in this house.

I don't know if I have a bible either, actually. I think I donated it before I moved up here. A lot of books didn't make the cut.

It's a little disheartening that that had to be pointed out.

Yeah. I mean, I'm used to people who think that Judaism is just Christianity minus Jesus, but I don't think I've ever had to argue that argument before.

Thanks to cleaning out my grandmother's/mother's house, I have like five Bibles now. I still have the KJV I used for five years as my textbook in high school bible class.

They weren't married yet.

I guess I knew that. If they had been married, Joseph wouldn't have been surprised or concerned about finding her pregnant, right? I remember the line (verse?) that when he found out, Joseph "was minded to put her away privily." I interpreted that as a private, quiet breaking of their bond, which I thought of as marriage but I guess it was engagement.

Still, her showing up pregnant and NOT married was even more awkward.

Shir, I thought this editorial from a Jewish newspaper in New Jersey was interesting

My two cents?

We had a busy summer. Protesting, you know. Learning to reach over difference in the unbelievable torn and divided society my country is. We learned that our problems is everyone else's problems. It was like a miracle. Waking up into a dream. Just read that speech (in the biggest demonstration that ever took place here, for the record): [link]

And for two and a half months now, every other two weeks there's another headline that's teaches us who to hate, or who should we be afraid of this time. Usually, it's only a day or two after another social issue from the summer's protest gets a headline. Palestinians? Iran? Young people who don't go to the army? Settlers? Leftists? Religious people? We're a small country with a lot of choices and sections. What I listed here are only the obvious suspects.

We were united, for one summer. There was an actual hope for change. I left everything - which is quite a lot - and went to 5 of the 6 demonstrations that happened while I was in Israel. And I hate demonstrations and large public, yeah? So especially after this summer, I know things can change here. I didn't use to have that hope before.

So right now, I'm taking everything press is giving me with more than a sack of salt. Because I remember that summer. And I know that if we won't take care of the social issues, that will destroy Israel faster than any so-called outside threat to it or terrorism.

I think the feminist blog comment thread argument (it was on feministing several years ago) that made me roll my eyes the most was, for a post about a new book looking at Judaism and the Hebrew Bible from a feminist perspective, someone was arguing at length that it's impossible to look at the bible from a feminist perspective, because the bible is inherently anti-feminist, because G-d raped Mary.

Wow. Priceless. I do hope that one came from a Messianic Jew.