Good--I can only speak for myself, but I don't think anyone wants you flouncing off, Erika!

Now I'm all sad that ND feels that way, but hey, I get to see him tomorrow! Yeahhhh!

Don't feel sad. Honestly this is something that changed for me years ago. I know that I can tend to say some inflammatory things and that my thinking doesn't always line up with everyone else and I have a tendency to go off on things related to religion. Rather than make it a really ugly situation that didn't fell to me like it would serve a greater purpose, I adjusted my posting and involvement habits. Again, I love the board and the folks here. The only reason I spoke up today was because I felt like I needed to not be the "lurker supporting in email" but rather voicing that from my perspective I saw this shift in the board as well. That's all that I can speak to, that it did happen from my perspective.

Yes.

Like what? I'm curious. For the record, slamming of black people or Jamaicans or any groups I belong will hurt me, whether or not y'all think I understand you mean other "good" Jamaicans or other "well-behaved" black people. It's how I roll.

I can see why ita, as a moderator/creator of the board, errs on the side of caution, believe it or not.

This has nothing to do with my role as a creator of the board, or being a stompie. I just don't like the idea of people being hurt because of of...precisely what Amy said.

Like what? I'm curious.

I don't know. Try one and see. I'm 50, female, white, fat, red-headed, pagan, living in Utah, born in Pennsylvania, Aquarius, married, childfree, dozens of other things. To be honest, I'm not sure anything you say in general conversation would upset me enough that I would feel the need to call you out on the board. You could probably think of something tailored to annoy me specifically, and I'd either challenge it or let it slide. But that would be because it's addressed to me.

I wouldn't even know where to start. I just...I don't make fat jokes. Or white jokes. Or whatever. I don't think they're okay. I'm glad you're thick skinned about it, but I also don't think there's anything weird about being hurt by a fat joke--you do?

I don't think the comparison between making fun of a race making fun of a political party is fair. A political party is an organization. It stands for stuff. Some people may support it without agreeing with everything it stands for or does, but it still stands for stuff and does stuff. The stuff that organization stands for and stuff is something can be legitimately judged. A race is a classification not an organization or movement. So an organization can be stupid or hypocritical or bullying or even evil in a way that race can't be.

Anyone can take offense at anything. But if you are a member of an organization that affects people's lives, while you can take offense at criticism of that organization, it is not automatically a reasonable thing to do. I would say you can challenge the people making the criticism to support it, and if they can't then take offense. But if they support their critique and you are still a member of that organization well you know...

But if you are a member of an organization that affects people's lives, while you can take offense at criticism of that organization, it is not automatically a reasonable thing to do.

Saying that all Republicans are whatever negative is not a criticism of the organisation so much as a criticism of the people. People who are right here. People who shouldn't have to defend their right to choose a political party in order not to be insulted, or have to remind themselves that they're the "good" ones in order not to take offense.

I'm not a "good" anything I'm born, nor anything I choose to be (which includes my citizenship, thank you very much). I am those things. If you make a blanket statement about any of those groups, be clear and sensible about why you're not including me, or be honest about the fact that you are, and me being a Buffista is not a good reason to exclude me. It's not a get out of jail free card.

I don't think anyone used the modifier "all". Republicans plural and Democrats plural are generally shorthand for discussion of the party, not of all members of the party.

So you're saying the implication that "Republican intellectual" is an oxymoron doesn't slam the choices of the average Republican? Seriously?

And if someone said "Jamaican intellectual" was oxymoronic I should be perfectly calm about my choice to retain Jamaican citizenship, because they obviously weren't talking about me, right, they were only talking about the stupid people with Jamaican citizenship? That's your stance?

eta: That also reads like you're saying that if you're hurt by the overgeneralisation, your hurt is oversensitivity or somehow invalid. I'm sure I'm misinterpreting that, however, because you're generally more diplomatic than that.

I had a cogent response to this, but the board ate it. I think that's the universes' way of telling me to STFU and not stir the guac.

But...I don't want anyone to go away.

I think some people (like me) snark about a lot of serious stuff. I think some people are thick-skinned about many things (like me) but some people have triggers (for instance, I am thick-skinned about myself for the MOST part) and some people speak up freely -- "Hey, that made me feel squicky, and here's why" and some people do NOT feel easy in speaking up.

The point that I see is that snark should never, ever go away, bu that when people's triggers get pushed the question should, in most cases, be "OK, this is what I meant. I didn't mean to hurt you, but why do you feel like this" if the writer doesn't get it.

I mean, the "military intelligence is an oxymoron." I've used this; I heard it ALL growing up, from my dad, my dad's buddies. My dad was a private (I think -- he was a grunt) in the early 60's; some of his buddies went up to Colonel, I think. I don't think they denigrated most of the people working in military intelligence; I think it was code-speak -- "Sometimes the higher-up's have their heads in their asses about what's actually going on in the field."

A friend of a friend IS military intelligence; I don't know what he does, because he can't talk about it. But he's agreed with the "Sometimes the higher-up's have their heads in their asses about what's actually going on in the field" thing, and made the military intelligence joke. I don't think he feels this is the case for the whole of it, or for many of the people he knows and works with. BUT -- he was talking with a small group of people, and he snarked himself.

I guess I went ahead and stirred the guac.

Speaking for myself only: I snark. I love it. I try not to snark hard on things that people on the board might believe, or if I snark, I try to include modifiers -- and not modifiers of the "...and some of my best friends are black/Jewish/whatevers."

If I do, it's a mistake. Call me on it, please. With civil discourse.

And now, I AM flouncing away...to figure out what to stuff up a Cornish game hen's ass (a dead one, guys) and how long to cook the damned thing. For my ham-hating sister.