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Olaf the Troll ,'Showtime'


Buffista Business Talk: I wanted simple, I wanted in-and-out, I wanted easy money.

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Ginger - Jun 04, 2011 9:09:51 am PDT #42 of 1416
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

Are you planning to publish your rates, Erin, or did you just want to have them established for yourself?


Strix - Jun 04, 2011 9:13:28 am PDT #43 of 1416
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

I was planning on publishing my rates; I've seen that on many freelancing websites.

Or an amended version, at least.

Is it strange and off-putting? I was thinking it as a menu for my services, but is it declasse?


amych - Jun 04, 2011 9:28:42 am PDT #44 of 1416
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

Erin, my main thought isn't too high or too low, but too complicated. Don't set a separate hourly rate for copy-editing vs. editing and for book publishers vs. magazine publishers vs. small businesses -- just set a rate (or maybe an hourly rate for some kinds of work and a page rate for others)

You may want to do a few fixed-price packages for the most common basic things on top of that, maybe resumes and brochure copy, but those are exceptions.

And remember that your rate is ultimately a target for you -- because you're making a proposal that you can shape (and not selling a manufactured product at retail!) you still have room to negotiate: offer fixed prices for larger packages, lower your rate for pieces that will be especially good for your portfolio, give preferred rates in trade for something else, raise your rates for a tight deadline, and so on, but your basic rate should stay your basic rate -- don't present people with a giant menu. It'll confuse, or worse, encourage clients to try to lowball you upfront for $5 less on the quote ("well, this is really more of a proofreading-type job, isn't it?...")


Ginger - Jun 04, 2011 9:29:28 am PDT #45 of 1416
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

Many people do it and swear it makes people more likely to contact them. I'm not comfortable with it, because I'd rather approach jobs as a business collaboration and give a quote after I have a sense of the scope. I also want to feel free to take work at a variety of prices, depending on my interest and poverty level.

I would suggest not breaking the categories down quite so far. I tend to quote a single hourly rate, under the theory that my time is my time. I wouldn't want to get into a discussion about whether something is $45 an hour editing or $60 an hour editing.

The reality is that there are people who are writing for $3 an article and people who are writing for $300 an hour.

(eta: or what amych said)


Strix - Jun 04, 2011 9:34:16 am PDT #46 of 1416
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

Ok, that is extremely useful. I am feeling my way along; I'm happy to have that list as a personal guideline, but I also think simpler is better.

I have a tendency for precision and verbosity sometimes, and it helps to know when to rein it in.

(Amych, insent, coincidentally!)


beekaytee - Jun 04, 2011 9:46:32 am PDT #47 of 1416
Compassionately intolerant

Erin, my main thought isn't too high or too low, but too complicated.

This was exactly my thought.

In the early days, my rates were very complex because I'd taken advice from some marketing gurus about creating multiple packages to meet every budget. That was a worse idea than even charging on a sliding scale.

In the end, I came up with three packages (one of which has only been used 3 times in 10 years!) and an ala carte option.

I do publish my rates, but when I was doing business consulting, I did not for precisely the reason Ginger mentioned. I found that it helped to publish a higher-end package of services as a basic estimate. Then, when people said, "That's great but I need you to do it for less" I was able to say, "Of course, which service would you like to cut?"

Most orgs went for the whole banana, but if they really, truly needed to negotiate, we could find a set of services that worked for both of us and I avoided feeling resentful.

This last point is key for me. In the beginning, I did a lot of negotiation and then ended up doing so much work, that I was paying them for the privilege.

Also, I felt no shame in adding what I like to call 'the hassle tax' for difficult groups...too many changes, negative energy, etc. Funnily enough, the clients I charged higher rates actually listened to what I said and got more out of it.


amych - Jun 04, 2011 9:48:48 am PDT #48 of 1416
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

Oh, man, yes, everything what Bonny said!


Liese S. - Jun 04, 2011 9:48:52 am PDT #49 of 1416
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Yeah, I agree with that feedback. Looking at that chart I wouldn`t know how much it was going to cost me to hire you. I wouldn`t know if my project was an overall rate or by page (how big a page?) or hourly and how many hours that would take, etc. Simpler is definitely better, so I could take a guess at how long and decide if it`s worth that amount of money to me.
 
The only peril I can see there is managing client expectations. We run into this a lot with recording clients. They are reticent to pay for extra time for preproduction, and don`t understand that the time they`re tracking in the studio is often a fraction of what they`ll need to pay overall (they`re welcome to come sit in on the mixing but usually hate it; it`s unimaginably tedious work). So a big part of our job is educating our clients up front as to what they can expect from the process. They are typically inexperienced clients, which I imagine your clientele will be as well. You`ll need to be able to educate them on what to expect working with you.


Ginger - Jun 04, 2011 9:57:09 am PDT #50 of 1416
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

One problem with such a list is that it's a rare client who knows the difference between proofing and editing, particularly when the correct description is usually rewriting.


Strix - Jun 04, 2011 10:05:18 am PDT #51 of 1416
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

Ok, that makes total sense, and yep, I've been Reading Books on Business. Clearly, I need to edit: clarify and explain. KISS, right?

All right, that is the task for tomorrow.

Thanks, all!