And we live to fight another day.

Mal ,'Objects In Space'


Natter 68: Bork Bork Bork  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


§ ita § - Apr 15, 2011 1:56:51 pm PDT #3477 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

That was for Zenkitty, who didn't want to be associated with a movement with Dawkins in it. I don't know how you find a movement where everyone passes muster. It would say a lot about people. We probably wouldn't need movements.


Zenkitty - Apr 15, 2011 1:58:33 pm PDT #3478 of 30001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

I wasn't looking for a movement at all.


zuisa - Apr 15, 2011 2:03:14 pm PDT #3479 of 30001
call me jacki; zuisa is an internet nick from ancient times =)

Timelies, all. I'm in Sydney today - we are finishing our 42 day Asia cruise, and it is going to be WEIRD today to have other people on the ship. 42 days is a long time, it felt like we were all friends!!

Plus my roommate/ship best friend goes home today as well, and I am NOT holding it together too well. This being my first contract I'm not yet used to people just leaving all the time. There may have been lots of tears at the crew bar last night. I felt like such a child. But I'm emotional, always have been, probably nothing to do about that now!!

Next cruise is 17 days up over the northern coast of Australia with a quick stop up to Bali. Should be nice!!


Allyson - Apr 15, 2011 2:05:39 pm PDT #3480 of 30001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

I wasn't looking for a movement at all.

I've been eating Activia.


Strix - Apr 15, 2011 2:07:08 pm PDT #3481 of 30001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

Well, sure, Allyson: it's always better to feel that someone is just clueless, and maybe a little education could open up their eyes versus "Well, this person is actually smart and has thought about it, and has an opinion which is egregiously wrong to my eyes/the actuality OR is just smart AND an asshole."

I deal with sexism by not really having close people in my life who are unopen to examining different POV's, by calling people out on things in my classroom (all the time -- when I'm in an active role as an educator, I feel bound to do this) or in social situations (when I feel sharply or arsed enough or energetic enough to do so.)

I combat the preconceived notions of sexism by just being a well-rounded person, and not accepting bullshit dichotomies -- I still use Ms. but am not really bugged if people call me Mrs., I kept my last name, I choose a relationship that's very equal, gender-wise, and I keep myself educated and pass along information as I feel I am able to.

It's...like some people have a calling for things, be it a religion or teaching or a social cause, and they build their life around it, and that's great, and the world needs people who feel that pull, just like the world needs people like me, who don't feel the activist pull, but just do small, constant things and live their life doing the things the activiist peeps need to use to point out "Hey, lots of people do/think/believe this, see?"

Some people are the wires, some people are the electricity. I'm a wire that throws out an occasional spark.


Ginger - Apr 15, 2011 2:11:14 pm PDT #3482 of 30001
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

Did this million dollar challenge ever happen, or is this what someone thought men and women would say? To me, the notion that women have all the power in sexual relationships is a pernicious myth with little basis in reality.


Jesse - Apr 15, 2011 2:11:23 pm PDT #3483 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Wow, zuisa, I can't imagine taking a 42-day cruise!

Some people are the wires, some people are the electricity. I'm a wire that throws out an occasional spark.

Ooh, I like that, and would like to think of myself that way. I just became facebook friends with someone I know from work, so the next day she said, "I didn't know you went to [grad school]! You must be really smart." I was like, eh. "...and a feminist." Well, yes, I am. Not that it has anything to do with [grad school]. But I guess that's a fair assumption. Anyway, it was kind of funny.


P.M. Marc - Apr 15, 2011 2:15:45 pm PDT #3484 of 30001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

WRT to sexism, Dawkins did also say this

"A more subtle reason for preaching to the choir is raising consciousness. When the feminists raised our consciousness about sexist pronouns, they would have been preaching to the choir where the more substantive issues of the rights of women and the evils of discrimination against them were concerned. But that decent, liberal choir still needed its consciousness raising with respect to everyday language. However right-on we may have been on the political issues of rights and discrimination, we nevertheless still unconsciously bought into linguistic conventions that made half the human race feel excluded."


Steph L. - Apr 15, 2011 2:16:17 pm PDT #3485 of 30001
I look more rad than Lutheranism

To me, the notion that women have all the power in sexual relationships is a pernicious myth with little basis in reality.

We're that gatekeepers, dontcha know. We decide whether or not men will be allowed to fuck us.

I have been told that more times than I care to remember. (Not by Tim. He tends to view sexual relations as something both people engage in, not something the man does to the woman because she "lets him" do it. That's kind of nifty.)


Allyson - Apr 15, 2011 2:22:22 pm PDT #3486 of 30001
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

It did occur at that meeting earlier this year. I'm not sure if there is YouTube evidence of it, though.

I'm writing an essay about this, and cognitive dissonance for the new book, so i feel raw-nervish.

It's uncomfortable when I'm called out on something racist or sexist. I think I've been called out here a few times, and my reaction is the same: defensiveness, justification, embarrassment, shame.

I'm trying to strangle the first two. Or at least shorten the time from them to shame.