Xander: How? What? How? Giles: Three excellent questions.

Xander/Giles ,'Never Leave Me'


Natter 68: Bork Bork Bork  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Connie Neil - Jun 01, 2011 7:42:14 pm PDT #10860 of 30001
brillig

Too many of those Great Talents With Passion For their Art have a significant other of Great and Transcending Patience behind them, keeping them and the children fed.


DavidS - Jun 01, 2011 7:43:44 pm PDT #10861 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

1. The examples that have been brought up have the common theme that the person's choice winds up falling on other people.

That's true. But artists are big fat parasites and I've got roughly a berjillion cites for those supported, often at great cost, by their families and friends to create work of lasting value. There would be no Van Gogh paintings without his brother Theo. The problem is that the long term value is not properly compensated over the short term.

2. Odds are pretty minuscule of actually making it big in artistic endeavour.

That's true also. However, it is my take that these cultural contributions are more valuable eventually than the market deems them. Frankly, this is a problem with capitalism not art.

Not to mention the artistic production which is basically given to the culture at large and often exploited in more commercial work. Art is by its nature a form of gift economy. (Not unlike Fandom in that way.) Capitalism exploits that - often unfairly. But that's the deal. If art steals back from capitalism (by, say, Faulkner's very poor customer service at his post office gig) then that's the way it goes.


Kat - Jun 01, 2011 7:50:30 pm PDT #10862 of 30001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

I'm with msbelle. I'd love to kerfuffle, but not tonight. Also Steph, I have a secret message to you: you are a wonderful and elegant turner-away. Kudos!

Still watching Downton Abbey. On Episode 7. Fabulous.

Noah is asleep on the floor at my feet. The sheer frequency of puking he is experiencing is no fun.


Burrell - Jun 01, 2011 7:57:35 pm PDT #10863 of 30001
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

300 posts people!!!

And poor Noah. Urpy kids needs their sleep.


msbelle - Jun 01, 2011 8:00:37 pm PDT #10864 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

Billytea says it well. I don't recall anyone saying there wasn't precedent, I read it more as not real responsible to tell everyone to fuck plan b. Not only will very few artists make it big, but not for nothing, everyone who thinks they need to follow their muse doesn't have the talent. Please see audition shows on reality tv. If someone has a passion for an art, they will find a way to pursue it. I think it's ridiculous to think everyone should be encouraged to follow a creative dream for their whole life, but then again no one can force friends or family to get weighed down supporting someone so they must be fine with it.


Kat - Jun 01, 2011 8:01:01 pm PDT #10865 of 30001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

We have actually run out of bed pads and are down on towels too.

I have just begun to read Winter's Bones. Holy hell! It's wonderful!


Burrell - Jun 01, 2011 8:06:20 pm PDT #10866 of 30001
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

Ugh Kat, I've been there. Running the washing machine and hoping I can scrounge up enough blankets for the night. Poor kiddo.


Lee - Jun 01, 2011 8:10:25 pm PDT #10867 of 30001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Sad story of the day: After this weekend's shoe discussion, I decided to wear shoes I don't usually wear all this week, but that only lasted two days, because now I have huge blisters on both feet.


Kat - Jun 01, 2011 8:12:26 pm PDT #10868 of 30001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

Very sad story, Perkins. I have just caught myself perusing the Fluevog site.


billytea - Jun 01, 2011 8:13:06 pm PDT #10869 of 30001
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

That's true also. However, it is my take that these cultural contributions are more valuable eventually than the market deems them.

I'd say that on that standard, the odds fall even further. In any case, this seems orthogonal to the original point, concerning whether a Plan B should be, erm, fucked. Or not.

(I personally agree about art's value, and would be very happy to see more public spending, grants, patronage etc. Quite obviously, that would render some of this particular debate moot, for some people at least. This not being the world in which we live, though, my preferences in this space don't resolve anything.)

If art steals back from capitalism (by, say, Faulkner's very poor customer service at his post office gig) then that's the way it goes.

That's not art stealing back from capitalism, that's Faulkner being a Tino to individual people.

Issues of intellectual property can be pretty fascinating (a friend of mine from uni is now an expert in same, teaching at a uni in Chicago); but once again, this is all not particularly relevant to the issue of whether individuals should sacrifice personal planning and risk management to their muse.