I DO think that it is possible to have a dayjob and succeed at a creative endeavor, and that buying into the having a plan b robs you of your creativity idea is, at it's heart, a potentially dangerous and glib statement. So I'm going to bow out of this discussion, because I don't think I can continue it and be coherent or polite.

how many ended up with ruined lives and absolutely nothing of artistic merit to show for the sacrifice?

I don't know. I don't run that database. But that's not unlike anybody's life changing decision whether it's the wrong marriage or the wrong college.

Why would it have to be work you don't give a crap about?

Well, I'm just going by Mellville and Hawthorne and Faulkner and those guys. They hated and resented their jobs. Though I'm pretty sure Toni Morrison liked writing her own novels rather than editing other people's.

I don't know. Bob Pollard doesn't seem the worse for wear that he was school teacher for more than a decade before Guided by Voices made enough for him to quit.

and that buying into the having a plan b robs you of your creativity idea is, at it's heart, a potentially dangerous and glib statement.

How is it any more dangerous than taking any chance with your life? Seriously, locking yourself into a forty hour a week job is not conducive to doing other creative work. You can do it, but it takes an even more extraordinary effort and I'd guess more artistic careers were ruined by dayjobs than the converse.

Matthew Weiner's wife supported him for five years before he got on the Sopranos. He didn't go writing ad copy in the meantime.

And unless they flat out discussed this and *both* agreed to it? I judge him. Pretty harshly.

And unless they flat out discussed this and *both* agreed to it? I judge him. Pretty harshly.

Judge away. I'll take Mad Men.

(FWIW, I'm sure they talked about it. And I'm also sure it was a source of tension in their marriage.)

Valuing security too highly is an obstacle to making a creative career. Where the line of "too highly" exists is subject to a lot of discussion. But it does require a gamble, and absorbing losses. Risk management is part of the equation.

If you're young and unfettered by parental responsibilities, I don't think there's anything wrong in leveraging your greatest asset: your freedom. (Aka, "just another word for nothing left to lose.")

a plan b does not have to be a 40 hour a week job.

I have about 3 plans to get Matt out of the corporate world - based on how we like to live. Many of the people that I know that have decided to become full time artists have left the bay area.

I have another friend L - who would love to make music , so she has found a career ( art and music therapy ) that lets her reach people with her music and help people - plus earn money. What will she do - time will tell but her plan b keeps her closer to her dream than working at a grocery store.

Look, I've made a number of specific cites to artists who didn't have a Plan B and succeeded. You can argue about the merits of that approach, but you can't say it doesn't have precedent.

It's much harder to count the careers that were wrecked by people who were too careful, and unwilling to take risks. Because those careers never took flight.

And I'm also sure it was a source of tension in their marriage.

I would not be surprised.

So I'm going to bow out of this discussion, because I don't think I can continue it and be coherent or polite.

I am going to take this advice for my own and do the same.

I think actually this is an issue that has a lot of future ramifications. As more and more tasks are relegated to automation, they'll need to be more of an economy built around creative endeavors. I think society (perhaps especially American society) will need to value creativity more than "hard work" since software and machines will more and more replace work that doesn't require creativity.

I think society (perhaps especially American society) will need to value creativity more than "hard work" since software and machines will more and more replace work that doesn't require creativity.

For me it just goes back to my friend Gary's work with risk assessment and management. Creative careers are going to have a certain amount of failure built into them, including careers that are ultimately successful. You can piss away your assets by not risking enough just as much as you can by risking too much.

There's nothing inherently wrong with gambling the most when you have the least to lose (young, unmarried, no mortgage etc.)