I'm all up in the law now, but damn it feels good to get my violence on.

Gunn ,'Unleashed'


Spike's Bitches 46: Don't I get a cookie?  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Steph L. - May 16, 2011 11:24:23 am PDT #21488 of 30000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

Wait--surely if you've established woman you've established her?

No, I meant that both "woman" and "her" (I'm linking them for the purposes of this example) aren't always going to apply when talking about pregnancy.

I'm with you on the assumption that once you've established woman, then the pronoun would be "her."


§ ita § - May 16, 2011 11:28:54 am PDT #21489 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I meant that both "woman" and "her" (I'm linking them for the purposes of this example) aren't always going to apply when talking about pregnancy.

Oh, okay. Because Burrell's example was "woman" and "their", which I agree is hella clumsy.

I don't see why academic writing never has occasion to refer to unknown genders, and I'm never going to err on the side of assigning gender for no reason, but if you do know and have already specified, why the hell not just keep saying so?


Steph L. - May 16, 2011 11:31:14 am PDT #21490 of 30000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

Oh, okay. Because Burrell's example was "woman" and "their", which I agree is hella clumsy.

Yeah, I moved on from pronouns to navigating how to talk about a pregnant person who might not identify as a woman. Certainly not run-of-the-mill stuff.


Aims - May 16, 2011 11:32:32 am PDT #21491 of 30000
Shit's all sorts of different now.

Congrats, Seska!! How exciting. You guys are beautiful!!

In other news, I totally got to hold, snuggle, and play with a freaking 6 month old capuchin monkey this morning. A freaking monkey. He was awesome. His name was Seymour and he totally snuggled my neck, inside my fleece, and NIBBLED MY FACE. It was brilliant.


Typo Boy - May 16, 2011 11:37:57 am PDT #21492 of 30000
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

For what it is worth, a lot of publishers have the standard of alternating between "he/him/his" and "she/her/hers" as gender neutral pronouns. That is the first time you make a gender neutral reference it is author's choice. But next reference you have to make the opposite choice you made last time. So if you start out with "she" as a generic reference to human beings of both genders, next generic reference has to use "he" (Or "him" or "his" depending.


meara - May 16, 2011 11:44:20 am PDT #21493 of 30000

you can no longer make the assumption that (to use Burrell's example from way above), "The pregnant woman should talk to her doctor," is correct

Heh. Glad I am not the only one thinking of the many pregnant men of my acquaintance.


Seska (the Watcher-in-Training) - May 16, 2011 11:45:02 am PDT #21494 of 30000
"We're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh?"

A fair number of sociologists use 'she/her' most or all of the time, when it's obvious that the reference is generic ("If the student hands in her paper on time, her grade will reflect this.")


JZ - May 16, 2011 11:48:48 am PDT #21495 of 30000
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

For the medical paperwork and studies I've helped edit (and participated in), the preferred option seems to be, for anything that could conceivably be written as a set of instructions, to do so and address the reader as "You" (entire grant proposals have had to be resubmitted because the patient bill of rights and informed consent forms were written in the third person instead of the second). Obviously it won't work for a lot of academic writing, but for mundane-world uses it's often pretty handy.


Typo Boy - May 16, 2011 11:51:48 am PDT #21496 of 30000
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

fair number of sociologists use 'she/her' most or all of the time, when it's obvious that the reference is generic ("If the student hands in her paper on time, her grade will reflect this.")

My preference. But my publisher told me to alternate.


§ ita § - May 16, 2011 12:00:13 pm PDT #21497 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

They! Their paper! Their grade! It's perfectly cromulent! I swear! I read it on the internet. No choosing, no alternating, no revelation of biases or stereotyping. Just good old not specifying.