I'm sorry to have gotten semi-hysterical. I'm doing a bit better. Once the current round of evil hiccups has subsided, I'm going to go home.

I mean, isn't it better to strive for "Out of great good comes greater good?"

Absolutely. I just don't think people are advanced enough in humanistic thinking to preform this very good idea. But that why I like the fleur-de-lis symbolism - it's a good reminder of this notion.

Also, a real question as to whether Israel coming into existence was a good at all. It has the right to exist now, but whether it had the right to come into existence at the time is another question. And Shir and I have pursued this is the past, I won't make an extended argument. But it needs to be understood that there are real non-trivial arguments to be made the world is a worse rather than better place because Israel came into existence. Again that is not the same as questioning its current right to exist. A child may be conceived as the result of an atrocity, but once it is born that does not bring into question its right to exist.

I agree it was kindda stupid from today's perspective, and yet so very necessary then, at its time. All in all, it was another "let's try and shove the Jews into their own place instead of actually learn a lesson from what happened and be more tolerant, generally speaking". There's still antisemitism and Islamophobia in many parts of the Western, "enlightened" world. But now, it's here. With the current demographics, even with the best imaginable leaderships, not sure for how long. So unless more countries will start giving Israelis foreign passports and rights (one of the very good claims that has been pointed out is that most "leftist" Israelis have a second citizenship, so they can take the chance of being wrong).

But I can't see the great benefit of discussing it thoroughly instead of focusing trying to find a just solution to the current state. I can see why it can be seen as a mistake, and I hope no one else will think that establishing a new country is the magic solution of hatred of specific groups of the population (and yes, I'm aware of Kosova).

{{{Kristin and ND}}}

weird double post

Pix, I don't think you're semi-hysterical at all. I think, considering all of what's going on (and the things that you're probably not telling), that you're being very proper, and fair and polite.

I have no idea how I'd act in your situation, but I have the feeling that it would involve a lot more of swearing and breakdowns.

Thinking of you and ND, Kristin. We're here for you.

Kristin, if there's anything I can do for you and/or Drew, please let me know. You've got massively good vibes headed your way, but if you want to talk my cell is on. So much love to the both of you.

If anyone knows an anti-hiccup magic spell, please cast it. Poor Drew is still miserably hiccuping as he tries to sleep. And they have him on Thorazine to treat the hiccups, which freaks me right out.

I'm sorry to have gotten semi-hysterical.

An entirely rational reaction to what's going on, so nothing to be sorry about. As for the hiccups, I think there are acupressure points that might help. I'll see if I can find a description for you.

Ok, from [link] points called Abdominal Sorrow

Location: On the lower edge of the rib cage (at the junction of the ninth rib cartilage to the eighth rib), one-half inch in from the nipple line. Benefits: Relieves hiccups, indigestion, appetite imbalances, abdominal cramps, and ulcer pain.

You gently press the spot on each side at the same time - this one that has worked for me, though there are others suggested at that page.