See, Vera? Dress yourself up; you get taken out somewhere fun.

Jayne ,'Our Mrs. Reynolds'


Natter 65: Speed Limit Enforced by Aircraft  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, pandas, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Hil R. - Jan 10, 2010 7:54:40 pm PST #637 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Well, the rules for kosher slaughter means that an animal that's shot with a gun (or a bow and arrow, or killed with anything other than a knife) can't be eaten, and there are also rules against killing animals needlessly, so that means no hunting for recreation, either. Trapping and then killing is iffy -- I don't know enough about the details of the law to totally say.


meara - Jan 10, 2010 7:58:39 pm PST #638 of 30001

So, what, come the apocalypse, all the kosher Jews are screwed? How did they survive before tame animals? I don't get it...


§ ita § - Jan 10, 2010 8:00:11 pm PST #639 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

There are hardship exceptions, right? I mean, if you get into a situation where you don't have any farmed meat, is it more important to not trap and go meatless?


Hil R. - Jan 10, 2010 8:02:41 pm PST #640 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I'm pretty sure that tame animals have been around for longer than the rules of kashrut. I don't know about the apocalypse question -- according to at least one Jewish source, everybody will be vegetarian after the messiah comes, because Adam and Eve were vegetarian in Eden.


Hil R. - Jan 10, 2010 8:06:13 pm PST #641 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Well, I know of plenty of historical circumstances of religious Jews going vegetarian because they couldn't get kosher meat. The Talmud says that that's what Queen Esther did in the palace.

I don't really know the rules about trapping. I vaguely recall learning something about it, but I don't remember what.


Trudy Booth - Jan 10, 2010 8:11:34 pm PST #642 of 30001
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

http://en.kendincos.net/video-lpttlfh-hunting-is-allowed-in-judaism-how-to-be-a-kosher-hunter-.html

No clue who this dude is, but he's talking about hunting for fur in biblical times.


Hil R. - Jan 10, 2010 8:13:11 pm PST #643 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

This looks like a decent summary of the Jewish view of treatment of animals, including hunting: [link] (That website is generally from an Orthodox perspective, and he usually takes the more liberal view if there are several accepted opinions within Orthodoxy.)


Trudy Booth - Jan 10, 2010 8:18:48 pm PST #644 of 30001
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

He later went on to talk about culling overpopulated animals. I think he mostly wanted to be manly and shoot stuff -- but that's an impression based on enthusiasism, not any critique of scholarship.


shrift - Jan 10, 2010 8:23:40 pm PST #645 of 30001
"You can't put a price on the joy of not giving a shit." -Zenkitty

I'm trying to pay my credit card bill. It won't let me.

ISTG, this had better be a site glitch and not the prelude to another fun fraud battle.


§ ita § - Jan 10, 2010 8:26:04 pm PST #646 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

That was an interesting article, Hil. He does say:

hunting and trapping for legitimate needs is permissible only when it is done in the least painful way possible

So I'm guessing no bear traps, but maybe snares or nets.

The guy I was talking to today goes home to Montana to cull both elk and cougar. Elk for overpopulation, and cougar so they don't eat the horses or the kids. And they eat all they shoot. He also said the first time he ate beef on the east coast he got food poisoning. It was so different from the free range beef he was used to.

Then he BBQs the elk with a brown sugar rub and rolls bacon in, and I hope they remember I exist.