I doubt this is what Brenda had, but sometimes heartburn has referred pain in the back -- when I diet my heartburn always goes away.

but sometimes heartburn has referred pain in the back

Really? Huh. Man I love when I learn things from us.

I know when I'm having ick from too much beef or other stuff that's gotten harder for me to digest, it sometimes feels like lower back pressure.

Good advice, Hil. Now tell me how to develop an actual appreciation for the way vegetables taste?

I think the best suggestion I've got for that would be to try some recipes from a good vegan cookbook -- something that treats vegetables as the main event and not as a side. There's a huge difference between the way that vegetables are prepared when they're meant to complement meat and when they're meant to stand on their own. Also, try stuff you've never tried before -- my rule for myself when I go to the farmer's market is that each time I go, I've got to buy at least one thing that I've never eaten before, if at all possible. I've discovered all kinds of things with tastes that I never knew existed.

A high fat meal can make my gall bladder hurt, but that's more of a pain in the side than the back.

I still don't understand vegetables. I've been vegan, I've done good vegan restaurants. And if they're not soaked in meat juices, I don't usually bother. And with my currently reduced appetite, it always seems simpler to go for the dead animal first.

Yesterday I was in a foul mood, and I can't imagine trying to medicate that with anything far off from a steak.

A high fat meal can make my gall bladder hurt, but that's more of a pain in the side than the back.

Mine's been gone since I was 21, so I hope it's not that.

Oooh. I'm watching Food Network, and someone just served sweet potato fries. Now I really want sweet potato fries.

Even my most hated food, cantelope, was sweet and juicy from the garden!

Cantelope (and melons in general), as I understand it, do not continue to ripen after they are picked, they just "break down" and get a little softer so you can eat them. In order to best ship them, however, they are picked a little green so they are less fragile. Grocery store melon is basically un-ripened slightly-decayed fruit. Its worst with cantelope because it has such a thin rind and is shipped greenest.

Vine ripened melon, otoh, is actually ripe. Farmers markets and farm stands aren't dealing with a bunch of shipping and storage and can actually have ripe melons. Soooooo gooood.

The other veggie I've really liked roasted is carrots. The gigantic fat ones are sooooo good. I'm spoiled by Carribbean neighbors and their produce demands -- carrots the width of my wrist have been a revelation.

Good advice, Hil. Now tell me how to develop an actual appreciation for the way vegetables taste?

The roasted with olive oil and some salt veggies that Brenda has hooked me on are very different. They're sort of more "meaty" in the way they are filling.

If you hit a farmers market for some of the veggies you already dislike less and cook them that way you'll certainly get a richer flavor. Of course it's possible you won't LIKE that flavor, but its possible (or even likely) that you will.

ION, I'm ordering pizza and watching Doctor Who. It is REALLY good pizza.