brenda, I totally agree with that aspect too!

I was commenting on the geography mainly because a few years back, I remember reading commentary from some of the bishops from Africa who were basically saying that the abuse was uniquely American and I just think that is so not true. Lemme see if I can find a link.

Trudy, exactly! This is the part that's so hard to understand. I'll have to look up what the Krisnas did. But yeah.

At this point ( and I haven't looked deeply into it, which I need to do) when the Milwaukee stuff came up, the mention of Rembert Weakland, formerly the archbishop, was that it happened before his time but he was shouting at the Vatican to do something. Which fits with my view of him. I believe he's been excommunicated.

(

OK, on Dateline this body has been moved several times. I am officially creeped.

But I do think that a) it's plausible that men who are both religious and uncomfortabe with sex and their own sexuality (and that's not unrelated), might gravitate to the church; and b) that is compounded by the rigid hierarchical structure and culture of denial and secrecy to create a uniquely horrific scenario.

One of the things that surprises me when you hear church officials talk about it is that they talk about the temptation of "sex". Something is not clicking in their heads that this is WAY worse than plain old betrayal of celibacy vows. So in addition to the dude who's an actual pedophile you have a supervisor who is kind of a twelve year old about "doing it".

Hmmm... I can't find the exact quote. I think the Guardian has an interesting piece that says:

The new millennium saw the US Catholic church implode over allegations, lawsuits and bankruptcies. This eroded public confidence in the church, which struggled to position itself as a moral authority and source of leadership.

The current abuse cases threaten to do the same in Europe. The Catholic hierarchy is coming to terms with increased secularisation in the west and is instead looking to Africa and China for renewal.

I don't think Africa or China have any less abuse than Europe and the US.

Also, in the article:

The order [by now-Pope Benedict] was made in a confidential letter and was sent to every Catholic bishop. Among other things it asserted the church's right to hold its inquiries behind closed doors and keep the evidence confidential for up to 10 years after the victims reached adulthood. Existence of the letter was made public in 2005, a week after he was named pope.

Is part of why I can't get enough of reading about this. It's horrible and I have to admit a large amount of schadenfreude on this one.

Among other things it asserted the church's right to hold its inquiries behind closed doors and keep the evidence confidential for up to 10 years after the victims reached adulthood.

That's what makes me want some fucking warrants, you know? Not ACTUALLY a law unto yourself, buck-o.

It wasn't just a divorce Henry VIII wanted, he wanted to be his country's only monarch.

One of the things that surprises me when you hear church officials talk about it is that they talk about the temptation of "sex". Something is not clicking in their heads that this is WAY worse than plain old betrayal of celibacy vows. So in addition to the dude who's an actual pedophile you have a supervisor who is kind of a twelve year old about "doing it".

It's amazing how tone-deaf the stuff they say is.

Is part of why I can't get enough of reading about this. It's horrible and I have to admit a large amount of schadenfreude on this one.

Me too.

When it was just Boston (and the rest of the US, but okay), the Vatican could write it off as an anomaly. If anything good has happened, it's that Ireland and Germany show that a) it's not just some American fuck-up and b) that the highest levels of the church were involved. For once, they can't ignore it.

They can downplay it, and god, they're debasing themselves trying to do it. But they canm't write it off the way they used to.

(First version of this post lost to cat rolling over on the keyboard. Hopefully this one makes it through.)

Rembert Weakland

Wikipedia says not excommunicated, and engaged in some assholery himself, along with some unambiguously good stuff and some stuff that was dodgy but essentially private. IOW, was flawed and messy and human (er, I guess, still is, since he's still alive, just retired).

It's amazing how tone-deaf the stuff they say is.

No kidding. For a priest to pull Godwin's Law in his sermon on Good Friday in front of a man who was (albeit an unenthusiastic and unwilling member) of the Hitler Youth is about as Tin Eared as you can get.

There was a recent (as I read it in the local rag today) case that came to light in my hometown from years past where the priest was returned to the Phillipines. And let me say, sadly, there is huge homophobia in my hometown, which will just pile on the pedophelia and get conflated with. And that'll get confused. But ANYWAY, even so, I don't really know how much it will turn anyone against Rome who weren't already chafing. I was used to seeing fancy framed photos of the Pope in most of my friends' houses. I wonder what they thought of my popeless, crossless place.