I need a better link about the Muslim community center NOT opening on 9/11/11.

Well, it's a construction project in NYC. The only way they could possibly open it on 9/11/11 is if it were scheduled to open six months ago.

Dirty secret not posted elsewhere: Yeah, I actually think the folks that want to build the community center in lower Manhattan ought to say, "Oh man, this is ouchy. Never mind. We'll pick another spot." This is a moral judgment, not a legal one.

Trudy already responded with my own thoughts on this - it's not ouchy to the people living there, and I'd really love it if the rest of the country could go back to just pretending New York only exists in the movies.

It reminds me of the Simpson's ep where Barney and Homer and training to be astronauts and they're told "In a way, you're both winners. But in a more accurate way, Barney is the winner." In a way, 9/11 happened to all Americans. But in a more accurate way, 9/11 happened to the the Financial District and the Pentagon and the people who died on United 93.

I think I'll start a Facebook group protesting zoning laws in Kansaas. If NYC has to check in with Real America before we can develop our communities, it should damn well go the other way too.

(This is because I replied to someone on Trudy's FB who spouted off that date, which is patently untrue.)

Oh dear, I haven't been over there yet -- I just lost my shit and went to bed.

Now I am sore afraid.

If NYC has to check in with Real America before we can develop our communities, it should damn well go the other way too.

Makes just as much sense. I barely have time and energy to run my own life, never mind those of people several hundred miles away who I've never met and likely never will meet.

The Gingriches and others screaming about the cultural center remind me of the old jokey definition of the colonial Puritans: A group of people deeply offended by the idea that someone, somewhere, is having a good time. Building the cultural center where it's planned may or may not be wise, and it may or may not be offensive (in an objective way -- obviously, many people are offended). But if freedom of religion and other rights were limited to being used wisely and in a manner that didn't offend people, we'd be living in a very different society.

Sigh. I iz dum. I've got a collection of bookmarks, the sort given out with each purchase at independent bookstores. A lot of them are really pretty or have cool graphics or whatever, so my plan is to wait until I've got a few more, and then make some sort of collage thing with them, frame it, and hang it over my bookshelf. Anyway, I usually keep them in a little pile on a bookshelf. When I was packing up my books, I put them inside a book so that they wouldn't get bent or torn during the move.

You can probably see where this is going. I don't remember which book. I've got to now open every book I own to find them.

I probably would have put them inside a hardcover, so I guess I'll start there.

sj, I'm so glad TCG is okay. He's got a wedding to plan, for heaven's sake.

Shir, that's a really great discussion about competing principles. Thank you for linking it.

There is some, but most of the polls show New Yorkers much more supportive of it than Americans as a whole. And I have no idea where I saw this poll, but there was one that broke down the numbers in a few different geographical ways, and basically, as you kept getting closer in to the actual neighborhood (like, first looking at the city as a whole, then just Manhattan, then Lower Manhattan), the support kept going up.

Hil, is this what you meant? [link]

I need a better link about the Muslim community center NOT opening on 9/11/11. So far all I've found is this one: [link], which is okay, but not really from the mouths of the developers. (This is because I replied to someone on Trudy's FB who spouted off that date, which is patently untrue.)

Teppy, I think I used all my google-fu on my search for the poll Hill referenced. All I'm finding is a bunch of parroted references. I don't think you need a link, though. They haven't even broken ground, yet. There's no way in Hell that building will be near opening in less than 13 months. It's a 3 to 5 year building project.

I am with Laura in my frustration that we waste so much time and energy on things that "should" be clearcut and simple.

I agree. And it obscures this evil: COFFEE PRICES ARE AT A 12 YEAR HIGH. [link]

eta...

Although the timestamp says otherwise, the above was xposted with Jess. After I saw sj's (I think) post I was busy with Chris for a while, came back and hit submit.

Trudy already responded with my own thoughts on this - it's not ouchy to the people living there, and I'd really love it if the rest of the country could go back to just pretending New York only exists in the movies.

I'll be sure to tell that to the family in my town who lost a 22 year old son on Flight 11. It doesn't hurt 2/3s of Manhattanites, so put your pain away.

Thanks to Fox News, there are SO many people out there who sincerely believe that trolling is an acceptable form of discourse.

My In-Laws have now reached the point where Fox News is now the only trustworthy news source. It's great at turning people's minds into gated communities.

Why do I have four iPod USB cords?

Apology to Jess: My last response to you was trollish and I'm sorry. Because you quoted my post from last night, right before your comment about pretending New York only exists in the movies, I took it much more personally than I should have and lashed out. I'm leaving my assholishness on the board only to remind me to be better.

Now I am sore afraid.

That sums it up for me.

You see, Israeli academia is now under attack by a rightist group, calling for laying off leftist professors "or else" they'll tell the academia sponsors they're aren't "true Zionists" and tell them to stop give them money. [link]

They are the only ones who get to call, btw, what a true Zionist is. Because apparently some people may think they are Zionists/love Israel, but they really aren't. [link]

They've also asked to check the syllabus of sociology classes to see if there isn't any "post Zionist" deviation in them. [link]

And yes, the word "McCarthyism" has been heard regarding to everyone in this discussion. I'm writing an angry post with my 2 cents about it as I type. All I can share with you at the moment is that I have a Buffy t-shirt with "Slayers. Every one of us" on the front and Buffy's speech on the back, and I'm trying to see how long will it take to their cell in my university to declare me as anti Zionist for wearing that t-shirt.

Poor TCG, not a fun thing even without injuries.

ILauraN, DH is flying up Thursday (my mom's b'day), then Friday we have the funeral for our family friend, then immediately after the funeral we drive to Florida. I hope I can convince him to stop half way to get a bit of unwind time. I'd really like to be home Saturday because Bobby's birthday is Sunday and school starts Monday. My life = busy.