(You see how I use this word?)

As "different from the norm"?

As "different from the norm"?

Yes, if you feel the need to handcuff my words. But I wish that people would bear in mind that in most cases, I don't give a fuck about "the norm".

Which comes back to the point that again, the kink is in the mind of the beholder. Most of my friends, if not all of them, are geeks. That, by definition, makes my norm not so normal. Do I distinguish between society's norm and my norm? Yes. But I absolutely do anything in my power to tilt society's norm to my definition of it, handcuffs included.

I don't know enough about what I like to comment on it. Which I don't say to make y'all have a telethon for me, but I've just realized that's absolutely true. Although the pop-culture representation of handcuffs is "Ooh! Kinky!" But is something really kinky when it's a joke on the Golden Girls? Even if it's a bachelor-party stripper losing her key or something.

But is something really kinky when it's a joke on the Golden Girls? Even if it's a bachelor-party stripper losing her key or something.

Don't even get me started on simulacra, baby.

(No, really. I have afk stuff to do, and I'm just waiting to see if my reasoning makes Steph happier).

Hmmmm, is Kinky something always defined by its deviance from societal norms? Or is it something kinked in my own wiring? Not that these are entirely separate. But I do think my own wiring has a kink in it, and not just as it relates to the baseline.

As "different from the norm"?

Yes, if you feel the need to handcuff my words. But I wish that people would bear in mind that in most cases, I don't give a fuck about "the norm".

Okay, how do you define it, in a way that isn't "handcuffing your words"? Definitions are, by their nature, restrictive. I can't define something without it being in some way restrictive.

Maybe if you define it yourself, I'll get what you mean, instead of trying to define what I think you mean and getting it wrong.

Although the pop-culture representation of handcuffs is "Ooh! Kinky!"

See, that's where I went. But I'm thinking I made too big of an assumption.

But is something really kinky when it's a joke on the Golden Girls?

You are, as ever, eminently wise.

But I do think my own wiring has a kink in it, and not just as it relates to the baseline.

Can you explain that a little bit more? Because I think there has to be a "norm" to compare against to define "kinky." Which is not to say that the norms can't change, which would then change the definition of "kinky."

Like the handcuffs example -- in the past, people would probably have definitely lumped them in with other crazy shit (electric play, ass hooks, crucifixion [gah]). But now, it seems, though they're still used as cheap pop-culture shorthand for deviance, in actual sexual practice, they're not so deviant any more.

t edit Okay, and I should say, on the "wiring having a kink in it," I am *totally* wired wrong. I don't doubt that for one second, and I've known it for a very long time. But my "wrong" comes from having something to compare my desires against (i.e., the "norm," such as it is).

Definitions are, by their nature, restrictive. I can't define something without it being in some way restrictive.

And, arguments about descriptivism aside, definitions of words aren't generally open to opinion, and accuracy aids communication.

Kinky something always defined by its deviance from societal norms?

I tilt there, though I use "kink" as "adventurous/french vanilla" as well, and hence, on the societal norms (maybe at their very edges, but still, there).

Hell, mostly I use "kink" to mock friends' when they're trying to apologize for choosing something that they think is dangerous or edgy, while trying to point out that it's up to them to define what is kink and what is not.

So maybe kink has lost any real meaning to me. Maybe that's why I'm saying that the kink is in your head.

If someone tells me something that's shocking me, I'd go with "OK... if that what makes you happy!" (as long as they're not hurting anyone else, all consensual, yada yada).

Maybe because I'm trying so hard not to be judgmental towards others, it comes this way. Oops.

Because I think there has to be a "norm" to compare against to define "kinky." Which is not to say that the norms can't change, which would then change the definition of "kinky."

It's a pretty common SF trope that IN THE FUTURE, heterosexual PiV sex will become kinky and exotic (usually with some handwavy explanation about overpopulation but mostly it's an excuse to write your characters as being kinky and exotic while only writing about the kind of sex the writer is personally familiar with).

[eta: or else it's an excuse to write about bondage while keeping your characters vanilla.]