Celery and hummus. Nom nom nom.

Totally! And totally unexpected!

Some random comments to wade into the political debate:

Our beliefs (political, religious, or otherwise) are not our selves. Something all of us should keep in mind more often (us being humans, not just Buffistas).

I am pro-Buffistas, even the ones I disagree with, or get into stupid pointless shouting matches with.

More specifically to the Republican/Democrat, conservative/liberal thing - What everybody else said.

I will also add - while Republicans were in charge, they got to pass laws I didn't like. I'm allowed to say loudly and often I don't like it, but I also have to obey the law, or fight it through established legal means (or disobey, but accept the penalties for breaking said law if I'm caught and convicted).

Democrats are in charge now in all three bodies, so we get to pass laws Republicans don't like. We'll have more elections in the future, at which point the landscape may change. That's how it works.

IT DOES NOT TAKE SIXTY VOTES TO GET SOMETHING PASSED IN THE SENATE. It takes fifty one. We have fifty one. I'm getting irritated at the massive, widespread perpetuation of the myth that we need a supermajority to get things done.

While I appreciate to some extent the argument that people don't want their taxes to pay for this, that or the other social program, or other people's health insurance. I don't want my taxes paying for questionable foreign wars, bombs and tanks, or jerkhole politicians' salaries, but I don't get a choice. Once you turn your money over to the government, it belongs to the government. Just as the money you pay to a merchant belongs to the merchant the instant the transaction is completed.

More importantly, I DO want my tax dollars paying for this, that, or the other social program, and for health insurance for everybody. See above re: we're in charge for a while.

On the subject of Republican bashing, which is really what started this discussion - public officials are just that, and I get to say whatever nasty-ass thing I want about them. That was settled a long time ago. You're allowed to be offended, but that seems a little sensitive, unless said official is a personal friend or family member. But even then, I get to say bad stuff about elected officials, just like Coulter, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck, or anybody else for that matter, is allowed to say whatever nasty-ass comments they want to say about public officials I agree with.

As for bashing Republican beliefs, ideas and positions, see above re: our beliefs are not our selves.

As for Republican bashing, as in "Shari H/DavidS/Gudanov/Sean K/[random specific private citizen] sucks because of their political beliefs," I'm not cool with that, but I also do not believe there has ever been a single example of that here on the board. Present me with an example, and we can discuss the inappropriateness of that comment, but I will be very surprised if such a comment exists.

Saying "Republicans/Democrats suck because of [belief X]" isn't quite the same thing, because I would presume such comment to be referring to the party, though such comments are dangerously close to crossing the line. And maybe sometimes can be a personal attack, and may not necessarily be cool.

I think I had more, but I'm kinda petering out.

All that being said, Shari H - I doubt we agree on much politically, and I'm certain that I personally am anti-your-beliefs, but I say without a doubt and without hesitation that I am pro-you.

Democrats are in charge now in all three bodies, so we get to pass laws Republicans don't like.

Now if only we would.

Now if only we would.

SERIOUSLY!

Yeah, I'm with David on being done with Democrats, too. I only vote them because I'm just not gonna vote for any Republican at this point, and voting third party is just not a workable option.

But the Democrats suck, too.

I doubt we agree on much politically, and I'm certain that I personally am anti-your-beliefs, but I say without a doubt and without hesitation that I am pro-you.

This is one of the reasons we love Sean.

I probably DID say that, so I'll apologize, but I also hope you're not expecting me to go back over years of stuff and insert "except for Shari" retroactively or anything. Because I'm not going to do that to please someone I've talked to twice. But I hope we could move on from here. Sean, yeah, I get where you're going with that, but I also think our political decisions come from deeply-held opinions about human nature, war and peace, so much as I want to agree that individual voting behavior may not be the way to pick our friends, political life is not, like, a fashion statement or Cilantro, Pro or Con. Sometimes I wish it could be. But it's not. But I'm also celery-eating draft dodging peace freak.

I really need to get my hair cut. It just took me for-freaking-ever to comb it out, and there are still a few knots that I just didn't have the patience to deal with.

While I am for diversity in thought and action, in general, I do believe I am in large part, defined by and made up of my ideas, beliefs, imagination, etc. Otherwise, I'm just flesh no different than any of youse.

While I am for diversity in thought and action, in general, I do believe I am in large part, defined by and made up of my ideas, beliefs, and imagination, etc. Otherwise, I'm just flesh no different than any of youse.

Let me put it another way - especially where politics and religion are concerned, I think the burden of offense is primarily on the offended. The world would benefit greatly from people maybe just not taking so much offense when other people think differently from them, and say so. Obviously it's a little more complex than that, especially when you bring things like bigotry and prejudice into the picture, but even then.... I prefer my bigots easily identified.

Or put yet another way - while you make a good and compelling point, javachik, if we are defined by and made up of our ideas and beliefs, to the point of taking offense when those things are disagreed with or disparaged, how then are any of us ever supposed to say anything to anyone? Every word uttered or written becomes offensive to someone else somewhere, for surely there is at least one other person on the planet who holds some diametrically opposed belief or idea.

IT DOES NOT TAKE SIXTY VOTES TO GET SOMETHING PASSED IN THE SENATE. It takes fifty one. We have fifty one. I'm getting irritated at the massive, widespread perpetuation of the myth that we need a supermajority to get things done.

AMEN. I am getting SOOOO annoyed by this plan.