The guy I'm debating with claims that even if the bill explicitly forbids spending fed funds on illegal alien health insurance, "we will end up paying for everything."
I just had lunch with my dad (who, remember, last week said that pharmaceuticals are NOT part of "health care" and that Obama hadn't yet done anything to help him [Dad L.] personally), who said that the big flaw in the healthcare reform is that illegal aliens will "take our healthcare."
I told him that the bill excludes illegal immigrants, and Dad said, "Well, you know they'll cheat the system anyway."
I pointed out that if, indeed, they "cheat the system," that's not really the fault of a bill that excludes them. That's like blaming speed limit laws for people who speed and crash and die.
Dad admitted that was a good point.
Frankly, I think the bill should cover illegal immigrants. And abortions, but that probably just makes me a communist.
I totally agree.
Flashback: Rep. Wilson Also Had To Apologize After Attacking Strom Thurmond's Illegitimate Daughter
Flashback: Wilson Shouted At Dem Opponent, Ranted About His “Hatred Of America” — On Live TV!
Ah, stay classy, Wilson. Stay classy.
Gah. I can't even parse the guy's response, due to unclear antecedents and my own ignorance of economics. Hivemind help?
We will be buying it for them* because there is no way that illegals will be able to pay the actual cost of health insurance. So it will either be subsidized (we pay), or it will be rationed by scarcity when reimbursements are mandated at below cost levels (we pay in lowered quality of care). Economic laws are binding as laws of physics. Prices and their effects are as incontrovertible as gravity.
* health insurance for illegal aliens
If the aliens are uninsured, don't we taxes in some ways pay for their health care now, as they may end up in emergency rooms?
We will be buying it for them* because there is no way that illegals will be able to pay the actual cost of health insurance. So it will either be subsidized (we pay), or it will be rationed by scarcity when reimbursements are mandated at below cost levels (we pay in lowered quality of care). Economic laws are binding as laws of physics. Prices and their effects are as incontrovertible as gravity.
My thought on that is "And this is different from today how?". We are not going to directly subsidize illegals, so number two would apply, but that's exactly what we have today with ER care.
Or, exactly what Sophia said.
If the aliens are uninsured, don't we taxes in some ways pay for their health care now, as they may end up in emergency rooms?
I was just going to say, don't we already pay for it. Many uninsured people end up at the ER becauase they can't afford to see a doctor and the ER's have to treat them. We pay in taxes and higher hospital costs which are translated to higher insurance premiums for the insured.
I was just going to say, don't we already pay for it. Many uninsured people end up at the ER becauase they can't afford to see a doctor and the ER's have to treat them. We pay in taxes and higher hospital costs which are translated to higher insurance premiums for the insured.
Exactly. And since most illegal aliens pay taxes, they should by rights have access to whatever public option is available.
One glaring lack-of-explicit-mention in most "illegal aliens stealing our taxes" conversations: there's a big difference between illegal-aliens-being-paid-under-the-table (illegal on the part of the employer, as well, and obviously no taxes being withheld), and illegal-aliens-faking-documentation-but-being-paid-legally...which involves federal and state taxes being withheld, albeit under fraudulent circumstances.
Lots of "illegal aliens" in Washington and Oregon are improperly-documented, but legally-paid, non-citizens. All the right taxes ARE being withheld, so they're stealing nothing (except headcount - theoretically, one of the hundreds of thousands of unemployed folk in WA or OR could hold the job being filled by an illegal).
I think it's just good public health policy, not even getting into anything else.
Today is kind of nuts.
I think it's just good public health policy, not even getting into anything else.
(whispers in a very snarky voice, "Except lots of right-leaning members of my extended family argue that the BEST public-health-policy in these circumstances is toss them all back over the Rio, don't make them WELL.")
