Jayne: That's a good idea. Good idea. Tell us where the stuff's at so I can shoot you. Mal: Point of interest? Offering to shoot us might not work so well as an incentive as you might imagine.

'Out Of Gas'


Natter 64: Yes, we still need you  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Hil R. - Oct 03, 2009 5:16:38 pm PDT #12113 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Wow. An article tracing e coli contamination in ground beef: [link] The inspection system seems like not so much a system. And the standard instructions about how to keep your kitchen safe don't actually work -- they found that a cutting board washed with soap still had e. coli on it -- the way to actually remove it is bleach, but all the safe handling instructions say to use soap. And cooking it to the recommended temperature doesn't always work, either.

And the way that ground beef is produced and tested, they might grind together meat and trimmings from five different suppliers and then test the final product, so that even if they find contamination, they can't trace it back to the source and warn any other grinders who bought from that same slaughterhouse. And according to most of the grinders (though the slaughterhouses deny it), most slaughterhouses refuse to sell to grinders who do test before grinding.

The USDA tried mandating standard procedures for how and when beef should be tested, and got resistance from the industry.

But the department received critical comments on the guideline, which has not been made official. Industry officials said that the cost of testing could unfairly burden small processors and that slaughterhouses already test. In an October 2008 letter to the department, the American Association of Meat Processors said the proposed guideline departed from U.S.D.A.’s strategy of allowing companies to devise their own safety programs, “thus returning to more of the agency’s ‘command and control’ mind-set.”

Dr. Kenneth Petersen, an assistant administrator with the department’s Food Safety and Inspection Service, said that the department could mandate testing, but that it needed to consider the impact on companies as well as consumers. “I have to look at the entire industry, not just what is best for public health,” Dr. Petersen said.

Why is the USDA in charge of both food safety and promoting the various agriculture industries? Wouldn't it make far more sense to have the people in charge of ensuring safety and the people in charge of ensuring profit be different people?


msbelle - Oct 03, 2009 5:31:34 pm PDT #12114 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

I WILL NOT read that woman's article or watch the interview, no way will not nuh uh.

I will report that my little man has so far had a wonderful weekend and is recovering so much better to situations of disappointment and anger (both from me and him).


Hil R. - Oct 03, 2009 5:33:43 pm PDT #12115 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I will report that my little man has so far had a wonderful weekend and is recovering so much better to situations of disappointment and anger (both from me and him).

That's great.


Hil R. - Oct 03, 2009 5:42:15 pm PDT #12116 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Totally random Catholic imagery question -- a figure of a woman with a scarf over her head that looks like a nun's habit and wearing a cross necklace is supposed to be a nun and not Mary, right? Because Mary wouldn't have worn a cross necklace? (I know that, logically, without time travel, she wouldn't, but I'm not familiar enough with Catholic imagery to say for certain that a depiction of a woman wearing one is not meant to be her.)


Zenkitty - Oct 03, 2009 5:45:11 pm PDT #12117 of 30001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

Why is the USDA in charge of both food safety and promoting the various agriculture industries? Wouldn't it make far more sense to have the people in charge of ensuring safety and the people in charge of ensuring profit be different people?

Hahaha. And when those two directives conflict, I wonder which one wins... money or public safety? ...oh, no, wait, I don't wonder.


JZ - Oct 03, 2009 5:52:37 pm PDT #12118 of 30001
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

Yep, Hil, that'd probably be a nun. Mary always has a vaguely nunny (but prettier) headcovering, sometimes with a crown on it, and a long blue dress. Accessories include often a baby, occasionally a flower, and every now and then a serpent being stepped on. If the woman in question is uncrowned, unbabied, flowerless, not in blue, and not stepping on a snake she's probably a garden-variety nun.

Not reading the USDA or the California stories; just glad I don't eat meat, heartbroken for my beloved home, and grimly unsurprised by either story.


Hil R. - Oct 03, 2009 6:01:55 pm PDT #12119 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Huh. This is kind of cool. For the ground beef story, the Times put up on their website scans of 106 pages of documents they used as sources -- everything from the logs of the grinding facility the day of a particular contamination to letters from executives to research about how effective the various testing and cleaning methods actually are. [link]

edit: the second document is from a FOIA request and has a lot of details blacked out, and then the next one is the same letter that they obtained from "sources" with all the details shown.


sarameg - Oct 03, 2009 6:02:09 pm PDT #12120 of 30001

That's great, msbelle! And that sounds so cool, Kat.

I'm back from a fun evening over at a neighbor/coworkers. It was a little odd to think I might be the oldest one there, but still fun. Nice to be able to walk there and back (though I didn't walk back, some people wanted to see my house and were also leaving so I got a ride.) ALSO, I spent a long time exchanging travel adventures with this one couple, half of which was merchant marine, and it may have netted me an invite to a party next weekend with a bunch of, and I quote " single really dirty sailors" and I am buzzed enough right now to think that is a COMPLETELY BRILLIANT IDEA.

Other than this evening, day was a bust. Missed my walk due to timing, had to try on swimsuits (mine is having structural failure) and then I get to the pool, AND IT WAS CLOSED. AHRG. First day in a month I haven't exercised somehow. Though I did climb 8 flights of stairs, so maybe that counts. Oh, and I finished murdering the medusa bush. That also totally counts. Took the edge off of missing the pool.

Tomorrow, long walk and long pool, damnit.


msbelle - Oct 03, 2009 6:06:32 pm PDT #12121 of 30001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

it is a COMPLETELY BRILLIANT IDEA. bowm chicka bowm bowm bowm.

moreso brilliant if any said dirty sailors will be heading to NY. I'm just saying, you could talk me up.


beth b - Oct 03, 2009 6:06:57 pm PDT #12122 of 30001
oh joy! Oh Rapture ! I have a brain!

yay for good weekend!