I'd been assuming they just tailored the personality in such a way that the personality would really want to have sex with them

But then the personality is being tailored to have no free will, which, then, makes the "sex" rape. Of Caroline, "Echo," AND whatever the personality du jour is.

As to the multiple personality thing: There is controversy about whether Dissociative identity disorder is even real.

That was the point of my "old-fashioned" comment. What I really meant was "TV-science version of" DID -- or amnesia for that matter. Like William Powell in "I Love You Again" (which would raise the question of whether George Carey was raped by the Myrna Loy character). I understand that actual psychological disorders are going to be much more complicated than their fictional equivalents, but hey -- apples to apples, after all.

But then the personality is being tailored to have no free will, which, then, makes the "sex" rape.

Here's the line I'm drawing (and I freely admit it's an absurdly fine one): on one hand, a personality which is psychologically incapable of having sex with the client; on the other, a personality which is the client's "perfect woman" but who could say no, should the client (for example) decide to hunt her before initiating sex, rather than after. And indeed, I think the Jenny personality would have refused had the "I'm going to try to kill you" thing come up earlier.

Does my distinction make sense to you? If I hire someone to go out and find my perfect man, who finds me totally hot and attractive, that perfect man is likely to sleep with me (just go with the hypothetical, please!) but still has free will. If I have that perfect man's personality imprinted onto an android (that is, separating this from the issue of underlying identity, which is a deep and murky issue to be discussed separately), that man still has free will. If I have a personality synthesized from several of my perfect men (ha!), then that personality is VERY likely to have sex with me, but still may have free will.

Oh boy, am I ever overthinking this. My point is, I think the personalities, as presented, have free will. That is, Jenny is not being raped. This does not prevent the sex itself from being rape, as Caroline is still at issue.

I think the Jenny personality would have refused had the "I'm going to try to kill you" thing come up earlier.

But I think Dollhouse could (and wouldn't, merely because of profit reasons) imprint an Active that would have sex in that situation. Does it still feel consensual?

And Rick, is there a term (and, um, profile?) for trauma-induced personality change, like Phineas Gage?

I think it was mentioned that she had slept with motorcycle race client, but I don't remember an actual sex scene.

I didn't rewatch, so this is definitely a paraprase, but I think there was the very definite implication that she and Motorcycle Race Client had had sex:

MRC says something about the fun, casual aspect of the relationship.

Echo says "We also said no strings. Remember how long that lasted?" And then there was some sort of reference to bondage they had engaged in.

And now I'm very frustrated with myself that I can't pull this conversation more completely from my memory banks. Sorry.

I'm with Emily. I too think that Jenny would have told the Middleman to fuck off if he'd attempted to have sex with her AFTER hunting her. I think the personalities have to have free will for the project to work; if they're too programmed, then there's no point in giving them imprints. The imprinted Active is supposed to represent a person, not a robot.

if they're too programmed

So do you see it as a continuum? Assuming Jenny had the free-will to say no to someone who was threatening to kill her, do you also think the Dollhouse has given her free will to turn down a client who'd forgotten his deodorant and smelled bad?

Do Actives sometimes have free will on this question of sex and sometimes not?

I think it was this:

Guy: We said no strings.

Unknown Imprint: We also said no ropes. Remember how long that lasted?

And there's a flash during the wipe process which seems to be the aforementioned rope-involving sex.

But I think Dollhouse could (and wouldn't, merely because of profit reasons) imprint an Active that would have sex in that situation. Does it still feel consensual?

Actually, it does. It might well be an extremely fucked-up personality which does not have her own best interests at heart, but if the personality consents, it sounds consensual. Unless the personality is psychologically unable to form consent, in which case it would be rape. (And yes, I believe the Dollhouse could construct such a personality. But then again, and I do wish I hadn't gone here, they could also be complicit in the straightforward unequivocal rape of a personality which they then wipe. The show has not shown us that they would, but they certainly could.)

But that's maybe the exception that proves the rule, in fact -- there are situations which represent, in my mind, the rape of the constructed personality, and there are other sexual situations which do not.

I'm not making any judgments, again, about whether Echo or Caroline herself is being raped. I'm strictly talking about the personalities. I'm regarding them as individual beings, for the time being and until the show gives me more detail. I'm aware that this is reality-wise impossible, and that the show is implying that it's not as clean as they think it is -- I'm arguing the idea as the Dollhouse seems to envision it, not the more complicated, er, fictional reality that the show is constructing.

I think it was mentioned that she had slept with motorcycle race client, but I don't remember an actual sex scene.

It was during her mindwipe from that assignment.