And don't you ever stand for that sort of thing. Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back! ... You got the right same as anyone to live and try to kill people.

Mal ,'Our Mrs. Reynolds'


Jossverse 1: Emotional Resonance & Rocket Launchers  

TV, movies, web media--this thread is the home for any Joss projects that don't already have their own threads, such as Dr. Horrible.


DavidS - Jul 22, 2018 6:50:17 pm PDT #5758 of 5827
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

The other responses are also worth considering: [link]

You can see critics and fans wrestling with it.

***********

Esther Kustanowitz: "The Joss Whedon situation hit me hard, because I was a huge fan of his work and saw him as such a champion of women. (I even wrote about it once, and that last episode of Buffy, as girls everywhere wake up to their own power, still makes me cry even while writing about it. Seriously. Just watched it again, and waterworks.) I even remembered being jealous when I heard an early demo version of some 'Once More with Feeling' songs sung by Kai; I imagined them in an equally partnered space of feminism, respect, music, humor and love that I was envious of and wanted for my own.

But this was a reminder again that you never know what's going on in someone else's relationship; that our idols have feet of clay; that in Hollywood, image is cultivated and constructed with a purpose. I can't imagine what it's like to be Kai, learning that her husband had betrayed and having to live in a world that idolized her husband for his support of women. But I also can't put aside the culture he created — perhaps, at least with the earlier of his works, while his vision and leadership was at the helm, it's worth celebrating the many many others who worked to expand ideas, creatively imagining and building those universes with him. For future works?

This isn't a 'Cosby situation,' so I'm not in the 'boycott' camp, but as I consume, and probably enjoy, the creative works where he's had an impact, I'll focus any appreciation on his writing talent, but will be significantly less worshipful of the man and his presence in the world."


Sophia Brooks - Jul 22, 2018 11:57:31 pm PDT #5759 of 5827
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

Regarding assholeness, I imagine there are tons of asshokes in Hollywood. There sure are in the theatre. One thing I love about Lin Manuel Miranda and his creative team is that they actively speak about not having to be assholes to go through an artistic process. They just don't accept that. I hope they never change.


Jessica - Jul 23, 2018 4:56:08 am PDT #5760 of 5827
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?

I suspect that Joss will be collecting a check and maybe sometimes serving as a creative advisor. I can't imagine he'll be heavily involved.

According to Tim's FB, he will be involved, and the EP title is not a courtesy in this case. (Tim seems to think he's being helpful by reassuring the fanbase that Joss *will* be creatively involved. I don't want to get into a FB argument about it on his page, but DUDE STOP HELPING.)


DavidS - Jul 23, 2018 8:40:23 am PDT #5761 of 5827
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I can't imagine a scenario where Joss doesn't write the pilot. He's got too much invested in the series to let somebody else set the tone.

I expect he will also be involved in breaking the season.

And I expect he'll do what he's always done - which is take a pass at scripts.

But with his new show, The Nevers, going into production I expect he won't be a regular writer and his involvement will lessen as the show gets going.


Jesse - Jul 23, 2018 8:54:57 am PDT #5762 of 5827
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

The more Joss involvement, the less interested I will be, just based on my enjoyment of his recent work, not any of the personal stuff. But also based on the personal stuff.

In general, I am willing to separate the art from the artist to a point that varies based on both the art and the artist, but also my direct involvement in the artist's success. I mean, looking at a Picasso painting in a museum doesn't put money in his pocket the way buying a ticket to a Woody Allen movie does.


Atropa - Jul 23, 2018 9:40:44 am PDT #5763 of 5827
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

In general, I am willing to separate the art from the artist to a point that varies based on both the art and the artist.

I'm usually willing to do that, too. Hell, I still listen to Motley Crue. (But they never presented themselves as anything other than raging trashfires.) With Bowie, the were the 70s a massively different time, but he changed his behavior. Ray Bradbury, my patron saint, said some cringy stuff wrt to gender roles, but was such a massive force for good that I'm willing to give him a pass on that. Plus, the era he was from predisposed him to the "Women are nurturing and aren't interested in science stuff" nonsense, but he learned. He changed his views.

Johnny Depp? I'm uneasy about rewatching his work (even his collaborations with Tim Burton), and I almost certainly won't be rushing to see anything new he does. Joss? I still like what he did with Buffy, Angel, and The Avengers, but will wait for reviews of anything new, because if he displays his kinks and issues in there, I'll probably pass. Especially because part of his defending himself was the "Temptation! So hard to resist! I knew I shouldn't! But needy, vulnerable young women!" routine.

If it turns out that Robert Smith did these sorts of behaviors, I don't know what I'll do besides cry in shock.


-t - Jul 23, 2018 10:34:28 am PDT #5764 of 5827
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

I don't like feeling as if I am responsible for judging who is morally sound enough for me to reward with my audience or patronage or whatever. Art I fall in love with is generally because it feels, y'know, true, like the person/people who made it really know how the world is so if it turns out that they treat some people as if they were not really human it's severely disappointing and makes their work enormously less attractive. I can analyse the whys and wherefores of it, but it's not, like, something I can decide rationally.

Woody Allen, for example, I have no real interest in seeing anything new he does, but I still think that Bullets Over Broadway and Deconstructing Harry are amazing and have important things to say. I'm pretty sure that what I get out of them is not what he meant me to, but that's okay.

Joss - on the one hand, the little things that always kinda bugged me about him are validated. So, less disappointing, in a way. But on the other, well, I had a male friend who made a comment once about a particular season of Buffy being "all about bouncy breasts" and at the time I was like, he's watching it wrong, and now I have that little question of maybe I was giving too much credit to empowerment over exploitation and it just makes me angry.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 23, 2018 11:44:08 am PDT #5765 of 5827
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I think he was watching it wrong. I don't recall thinking that was a problem in any season of Buffy, and I was definitely aware of similar issues at the time, like the lead character on Dark Angel going into heats or a teacher on Smallville who looked and acted like she stepped out of a Van Halen video.


-t - Jul 23, 2018 12:04:18 pm PDT #5766 of 5827
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

He didn't regard it as a problem...


Kalshane - Jul 26, 2018 1:16:40 pm PDT #5767 of 5827
GS: If you had to choose between kicking evil in the head or the behind, which would you choose, and why? Minsc: I'm not sure I understand the question. I have two feet, do I not? You do not take a small plate when the feast of evil welcomes seconds.

Sounds like the new Buffy is going to be about a different Slayer rather than a reboot. [link]