I am of two minds on the show. I agree with Tep that she IS being raped and that it is horrible, but I think that's the point. I mean, I think that her recovering herself and fighting the Dollhouse (which is where it seems the show is going) means she is fighting a group which has made her and her fellow dolls go through the worst possible theft, of identity, of free will, of personal autonomy. The rape is part of the evil. The rape is not only part of the evil, the rape is a metaphor for what is happening to Echo's whole self.

The first episode was pretty crappy and exploitative, but the second made me feel like we are watching a character who truly has all the odds stacked against her, but whose essential personhood is fighting its way back to strength. If that's where the show is going, then the awfulness of what Echo is going through now is a greater obstacle to overcome, and that can make for better conflict. If it isn't and we just get more sex of the week, than I am gone.

I am of two minds on the show. I agree with Tep that she IS being raped and that it is horrible, but I think that's the point. I mean, I think that her recovering herself and fighting the Dollhouse (which is where it seems the show is going) means she is fighting a group which has made her and her fellow dolls go through the worst possible theft, of identity, of free will, of personal autonomy. The rape is part of the evil. The rape is not only part of the evil, the rape is a metaphor for what is happening to Echo's whole self.

Scrappy, thank you. That is exactly what I have been thinking and yet not knowing how to express. I don't think the rape is meant to be a metaphor at all--I think it is exactly the point. How is human trafficking in the real world any less horrific? If, as Scrappy says, this is a character whose "essential personhood is fighting its way back to strength," then I'm in. If it remains sex of the week, nsm. So I'm on the fence.

Hmm. Interesting comments. Still haven't seen the damn show yet.

I'm very much with Scrappy and Kristin with the overall direction of the show, and am willing to grant it some probation.

I don't know how much of this is because I haven't in fact seen the first episode, just the second. I'm thinking I'll wait until I've seen the third before I see the first, which really does seem to have left a bad taste in mouths here.

When it all comes down to it, I really don't like the violence. The violence is a lot less stylized that it was on Buffy/Angel, and I don't find it enjoyable, plus I'm kind of burned out on violent TV shows in general.

Yes, that's going to be a problem for people, too. When it was somebody being vamped, it's just as much a 'rape' figuratively, but it may be emotionally easier to deal with.

Top 25?

Things I enjoyed about the second episode: Eliza gets to be all Faith-esque kickass which is fun to see. The handler, I love him. He is definitely my entry point to the show. I am so curious as to how and why he decided this was OK to be a part of? Echo and Handler Dude's relationship, which seems to be growing even though that isn't supposed to be that way. Flashbacks and the Alpha exposition.

Things I did not enjoy about the second episode: Chasing a woman through the woods as if she's an animal? After fucking her? Deciding if she deserves to live? Ugh, totally repugnant. The resolution was OK, but when I realized that was happening, I felt pretty nauseous.

Well, he does seem to have been a serial killer rather than an ordinary guy with odd tastes. So thank goodness for that.

I have thoughts on the rape aspect, but they're discombobulated and bound up with the whole identity issue, so I'm keeping them to myself at the moment. I'm intrigued by the handler guy, who's clearly (I think) being presented as a standup guy... who's voluntarily working for an organization that's essentially practicing slavery. I'm confused about him, but I like him!

The concept doesn't squick me (er, that doesn't mean I like it, just that it's not a show-killer for me), and I like all the stories they're combining (seriously, the number of storylines they're keeping up with in every show is really impressing me), so I'll keep watching.

I missed the second episode, and it sounds like it was more interesting than the first. Oh well. I'll try it again this week, but right now I'm feeling manipulated. None of the characters speak to me yet.