And here I was thinking that it didn't have to be sex to be rape, which is why I've given up on the whole argument. Whether they fuck them or not is not relevant to the rape issue. It's not the sex, it's the control. Whether it's a tea party with teddy bears or whips and chains or bows and arrows. I thought that this had been implied in most of the conversations going on here.

And why I have stopped raising an eyebrow whenever there is sex. If the one is rape, so is everything else, or none at all unless specified by the current imprint. I feel like I've been f'duh'd this before, but then I don't see this in following conversation.

Or maybe I should crawl back under my rock.

Umm - OK, this is something where I may need to be educated. I thought rape did involve sex (defining sex very broadly to include whips and chains and ropes and role playing and so on). But kidnapping someone and making them play laser tag, or battleship od D&D I'm pretty sure is not sex. Kidnapping or some similar crime. Yeah rape is about power, but it is also (at least for the rapist) about sex. Not all kidnapping is rape, though kidnapping without rape still evil.

What is forcing someone to do something non-sexual through mind-control? Assault?

What is forcing someone to do something non-sexual through mind-control? Assault?

What about hypnosis? The person volunteers to be hypnotized, but ends up clucking like a chicken or forgetting the number 6.

Certainly it is abuse, but rape is in my mind quite specifically sexual abuse.

Topher programming Sierra to play video games is perhaps an attempt at creating a gray zone, but as cute as the scenes were, still abuse. Scenarios where the Actives are used to do real good, still abuse.

The Actives may if given a choice have sex, play video games, or rescue kidnapped kids, but there is that whole choice thing.

And here I was thinking that it didn't have to be sex to be rape, which is why I've given up on the whole argument

I think I do know what you mean*, but linguistically I'd go with rape as specifically implying sex.

Violation is the word I'd use to describe the non-sexualised side of this abuse of power and control. I don't think it's any less serious, but I think rape specifically implies sex; it can be used metaphorically, sure, but that's not the same as being an umbrella term.

(*and on a related note, my discomfort with RPF is along these kind of lines - that RPF about Jensen Ackles going shopping, walking the dog and phoning his mum to talk about birthday plans is just as intrusive and usurpy as a PWP about him and his co-worker. It's the same kind of disrespect and liberty-taking, regardless of whether the fictionalising is licentious.*)

I consider that sex is necessary in order for me to classify it as rape, but I originally thought Juliebird's comment was referring to the notion that Topher is serving as a pimp when Sierra goes out on her missions, so he is a rapist by proxy - facilitating the personality/mind wipes.

But that's the broader picture. In the most recent ep, her role was not a sexual partner - thank goodness - for once.

on a related note, my discomfort with RPF is along these kind of lines

that is a very interesting insight. I feel the same way about RPF.

violation -- that's the word I'd use. Everything about the dolls is changed for a convenience for someone else. I'm not sure you can really get consent for it either.

"Abuse" and "violation" are both good words for what is going on. Rape is only one kind of abuse, only one way the dolls are violated.