P-C,

I made the same comment to Beau. I thought the time-shifting was pretty amusing actually.

The thing I keep coming back to is that, yes, the "A-plot" had to be trite and predictable - confronting his dying father in a dream so he can wake up and be his own man? really? - because the real story is Leo & Marion Cotillard's story, and if the *entire* movie is Leo's dream, which is likely, then the Fischer stuff is just Leo making shit up where he's the hero of his own story. Fischer's story is a metaphor for Leo's story. And on that level, it's a brilliant layering of the narrative. But on the level where the audience does have to sit through the Fischer story for almost 3 hours in order for the super-extended metaphor to play out, by the time they got to the snow level I was pretty metaphored-out and ready to move on. I felt like I was watching a bunch of people play a video game, and if I couldn't play, could I at least take a nap until they got to the interesting bit?

In other news, and probably in large part for Hec: Women Scientists in 1950s Sci-Fi

they didn't all wake up when the van flipped over. I mean, come on, that didn't qualify as a kick??

I was able to explain most of this in my head as such: in order to wake up during a kick, the characters had to be awake or falling in the next level down as well.

this is how Leo DIDN'T wake up - he didn't jump in Limbo, so he stayed asleep at the snow level, so he stayed asleep at the hotel level, so he stayed asleep at the van level. Ariadne jumped at limbo, which woke her up just in time at the snow level, which woke her up just in time at the hotel, then van levels.

This only fails, as far as I can tell, for Arthur. HE should have woken up when the van flipped, as he was awake at the hotel level. But then I thought, maybe the DREAMER can't wake up unless nobody else is sharing the dream at the time, so Arthur couldn't wake up as long as the other people were asleep.

But that fails at the snow level, because Eames shouldn't have been able to wake up out of that dream with Leo all in limbo.

Unless limbo is really special and breaks all the rules. Which I'm willing to go with.

And that's the explanation I'm sticking with right now.

My fiance just brought up another logical inconsistency, though:

Cobb and Mal were in limbo alone, no projections allowed. Why did Saito get to have two people with guns who could pull Cobb off the beach?

In other news, and probably in large part for Hec: Women Scientists in 1950s Sci-Fi

Thanks, Raq! I hope they have lots of pictures because everybody knows that female scientists are hot.

I'm thinking I need to see this movie again and pay closer attention to the worldbuilding. Right now I don't remember it in enough detail to either nitpick or defend things like that.

(DH and I had a long discussion over why the van going over the rails was able to start an avalanche in the snow level, but the snow level didn't experience any weird gravity while the van was in midair.)

I'm very impressed that Gris knows the names of all the characters! I forgot most of them except for Cobb and Ariadne (and I only remember the latter because of the labyrinth connection, which, really??)

As far as the various "inconsistencies", I'm willing to accept that the rules are not set in stone but are only guidelines. e.g., if such and such happens, you are very *likely* to wake up... but you might not!

Gris, your explanation was the one I thought of after I posted my comment, and I also thought that Arthur should have woken up. So I don't know.

As for your other one, Mal and the kids are both Cobb's projections, so I don't see the inconsistency.

The FIRST time they were in limbo, though, they were completely alone for fifty years.

Bidunno. I'm pretty much with Jon B right now - guidelines only!

Also, if the whole movie is actually all one big Cobb dream, then whatever.