I think it could have been done without the Holocaust reference.

She had control in all the situations she was in with the Chitauri

To me, she could jump on the sled and steer the alien and its technology simply because the script said that was a doable act. And she couldn't get the Hulk off her trail while the script said she couldn't. They're both ridiculous stunts, and the divide between them strikes me as nothing but arbitrary.

If she'd made the face of steely resolve instead of the wibble of vulnerability, what less would the movie have said to you?

If she'd made the face of steely resolve instead of the wibble of vulnerability, what less would the movie have said to you?

I don't get why the wibble of vulnerability is a bad thing when she's obviously brave and obviously competent and despite not having super powers does as much as any of them to win the fight.

You can be flawed, and vulnerable and wibble and cry and still kick ass.

You can be flawed, and vulnerable and wibble and cry and still kick ass.

Then why not give that moment to one of the guys?

It's not in character for the Black Widow that I've read, and I find the oversight of her character generally more sloppy than the rest (not Hawkeye, but he's barely in the movie). And that gets up my nose.

Yes, I don't want the only wibbly character on the team to be the woman. Not yet. Give me a few years of parity and call me back, and in the meanwhile, get better stunt doubles or spend more time CGIing her face in (oh, actually, the CGI of Tony's face into the helmet or the helmet onto his face was also awkward--the rest was pretty tight).

Then why not give that moment to one of the guys?

Boys don't cry, Jessica. The Cure told me so.

Maybe he wanted to make that point specifically about women. Maybe that was his take on her character, what with the control-needing.

I think one of the things I really loved was Natasha's fear. Even in the hut with Bruce and those soldiers outside: fear. Chased by the Hulk? It did make him scarier for me, instead of just a big CGI dude with anger issues. It made me not take the Hulk for granted. Maybe she could have sucked it up a little sooner, but I appreciated her reactions to him. Consistent or no.

Say, I've been reading some comics and some fic, and what's the deal with how sometimes Natasha is called Natalia?

I don't know about in canon, but my Aunt Natasha was sometimes called Natalya just because. Russian names are kind of fluid like that.

See, in the hut with Bruce I got a totally steely but understanding response to a potential threat way outside of her capability to stop. She didn't strike me as the sort of woman who needed to see the Hulk in action before she understood it. I thought she clearly already did, and she had looked the potential in the eye and pulled a gun anyway.

Not the lip wobbling though. Didn't like it at all.

When she was running from Hulk on the helicarrier and hid, I thought it was more that she was in really bad pain and the wibble came more from that than fear. Her leg had been nearly crushed and I know I would have been crying like a weenie. When she went to confront Hawkeye, she was still limping pretty badly.