There are three possibilities: you are dreaming, you are awake, you are in someone else's dream. Your top would spin forever in someone else's dream, and fall in your dream or if you are awake.
Right?
I'm now totally confused.
Played with Kaylee. Sun came out, and I walked on my feet and heard with my ears. I ate the bits, the bits stayed down, and I work. I function like I'm a girl. I hate it because I know it'll go away. The sun goes dark and chaos has come again. Bits. Fluids. What am I?!
River ,'War Stories'
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§ ita § - Oct 12, 2010 3:40:03 pm PDT #11551 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Jessica - Oct 12, 2010 3:44:47 pm PDT #11552 of 30000
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
Your top would spin forever in someone else's dream, and fall in your dream or if you are awake.
That doesn't help Cobb either, though - if the top obeys the laws of physics in his own dreams AND in reality, why spin it at the end?
§ ita § - Oct 12, 2010 3:47:28 pm PDT #11553 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I'm not saying it helps. Just trying to lay out the limits of metaphor--if you can't let someone else touch it because then they will have it behave correctly in their dream, won't it behave correctly in your own?
Sean K - Oct 12, 2010 3:48:14 pm PDT #11554 of 30000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
Yeah, the three possibilities are awake, dreaming, in someone else's dream. But I'm not sure you've got the top spinning forever in the correct dream. But I'm not sure you're wrong either.
Either way, the line struck me as not being about telling if you're awake necessarily, but telling if you're in someone else's dream or your own.
Sean K - Oct 12, 2010 3:48:42 pm PDT #11555 of 30000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
I also think Nolan was deliberately murky about this.
Juliebird - Oct 12, 2010 3:48:53 pm PDT #11556 of 30000
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
I don't think the "someone else's dream" is a valid situation. I think dreaming is dreaming, whether it's your dream or someone else's. It's strictly two situations. I think the top really comes frequently into play when you are either stuck in limbo or are in someone else's dream. Two situations where you don't realize you are dreaming.
And the end, it's for us to figure out if Cobb is awake or dreaming.
Sean K - Oct 12, 2010 3:52:37 pm PDT #11557 of 30000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
Actually, here's something else I noticed (or noticed more) the second time through -- There is never a mechanic supplied for how dreams are shared.
I mean, they're all strapped up to that machine, but so? By the visual indications supplied in the film, all that box does is supply the drugs, but even if it does more that that, how exactly does it do that? Ultimately, it's a MacGuffin -- it doesn't matter. It's not important. And yet, it kind of is, in determining what's a dream and what's not. And, of course, not providing that info makes the waters murkier yet again.
Juliebird - Oct 12, 2010 3:55:05 pm PDT #11558 of 30000
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
And of course you can dream up the mechanics to make you share a dream deeper.
§ ita § - Oct 12, 2010 3:57:21 pm PDT #11559 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I don't think the "someone else's dream" is a valid situation
Why not? You can be in someone's dream, or you can be in your own.
Juliebird - Oct 12, 2010 3:58:04 pm PDT #11560 of 30000
I am the fly who dreams of the spider
Now I wish that they'd done something with a totem being compromised.
Why not? You can be in someone's dream, or you can be in your own.
I'm not seeing how the totem would act differently in your own dream or someone else's. If Cobb was the dreamer, or along for the ride, would his/Mal's top act differently? Am I completely misunderstanding? Totally possible, considering the little shit I only just caught.