I kissed him, and I told him that I loved him. And I killed him.

Buffy ,'Same Time, Same Place'


Buffista Movies 7: Brides for 7 Samurai  

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Sean K - Oct 05, 2010 9:38:34 am PDT #11396 of 30000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

Here's Javi Grillo-Marxuach's tweet on the the new movie:

julie taymor's films are the movie equivalent of a gorgeous, erudite but very difficult companion who may leave the party with someone else.


§ ita § - Oct 05, 2010 9:39:45 am PDT #11397 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

The problematic effect has to do with a cultural history, as well as what Caliban means specifically in the play.

The problematic effect has to do with what I read as you calling Djimon bestial, to be precise.


DavidS - Oct 05, 2010 9:42:49 am PDT #11398 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

The problematic effect has to do with what I read as you calling Djimon bestial, to be precise.

I didn't presume my comment was happening in a vacuum, but enjoined already in a long running discussion where the terms and issues of race-blind casting would be understood as given.

If not, I'll clarify: there's nothing bestial about Djimon. But the issue is with casting a black man as a half-human, demonic, rapey character.


Jessica - Oct 05, 2010 9:45:26 am PDT #11399 of 30000
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

mostly because black actors don't get a lot of opportunities to do Shakespeare on film

The solution to this is not to limit black actors to explicitly described-as-black-in-the-text characters, especially when those characters are based on 400 year-old harmful stereotypes.


Daisy Jane - Oct 05, 2010 9:46:14 am PDT #11400 of 30000
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

I read it as the character Caliban being bestial. Did I miss something?


Matt the Bruins fan - Oct 05, 2010 9:52:15 am PDT #11401 of 30000
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

It's not like we're talking about a Kenneth Branaugh production here.

Hey, even he cast Denzel, and I don't recall anything in the text about Don Pedro being black. (Though I do wish Branaugh had been a little less expansive and restricted his casting choices in that film to people who can act—sorry, Keanu.)


§ ita § - Oct 05, 2010 9:58:22 am PDT #11402 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I read it as the character Caliban being bestial.

I guess if you accept that Djimon being black has anything to do with it, sure. I may be oversensitive on the topic, but I have a major disconnect getting to anything past "other." Accepting the equation of casting him for bestial qualities (beyond his ability to play bestial--the implication is clearly something inherent here) is further than I'm comfortable going.


Kathy A - Oct 05, 2010 10:01:29 am PDT #11403 of 30000
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

Oh, how I love Denzel in Much Ado! Just brilliant in the role--he's hilarious in the trapping-Benedict scene with Robert Sean Leonard, and then unexpectedly yearning when he asks Beatrice if she'd have him as a lover/husband.


Daisy Jane - Oct 05, 2010 10:08:58 am PDT #11404 of 30000
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Accepting the equation of casting him for bestial qualities (beyond his ability to play bestial--the implication is clearly something inherent here) is further than I'm comfortable going.

I did not read that in the comment.

The character in the play is a commentary on colonialism and slavery, and I think there's an argument to be made for putting that commentary up front and in the viewer's face.


DavidS - Oct 05, 2010 10:10:51 am PDT #11405 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

ut I have a major disconnect getting to anything past "other." Accepting the equation of casting him for bestial qualities (beyond his ability to play bestial--the implication is clearly something inherent here) is further than I'm comfortable going.

To be more clear, I think Taymor is using the fact that he's the only black person in the cast to contrast him, and designate him as other in relation to the rest of the white cast. In short, she's exploiting his blackness.

Knowing her visual sense, I wouldn't doubt that some of that choice is an aesthetic one, a question of palette. Though casting a black man in that role (intentionally? thoughtlessly?) exploits cultural history that has more to do with Being Black than Being Caliban.